TSB III Top 20s By Position - Running Backs

[deadfaulkner]

I was thinking about the earlier forum thread started by Spectre about the best TSB III teams, and I thought we might break it down further by debating the top players by each position.  Running backs seem like a good place to start.  For one, they might be the most important players on the offense, though that's certainly debatable.  Also, it's one of the more difficult positions to rank, since there are many different styles of running backs that can be effective - pure speed guys like Barry Sanders, power guys like Rod "the Lesser God" Bernstine, and spinny-jumpy guys like Eric Metcalf.

 

I revisited my rankings, which try to put players on a 100-point scale (a la Madden).  I won't bother getting too technical, but I rate guys in four areas: Speed, Elusiveness, Power, and Hands, and I create my rankings based on those.  From there, I use a slightly complicated formula to derive an overall rating.

 

I should note that the rating I give is geared toward MAN-MAN play.  I'm no expert in playing the COM, but my gut feeling is that against the computer, pure speed is a little more important than elusiveness and power, while that's not quite as true against a human.  Again, that's just my gut feeling.

 

Also, my rankings don't take into account the playbook of the offense in which the guy plays, since our league allows full playbook editing.  So, with a crappy playbook, some of these guys might not be as effective.

 

Here are the top 20 TSB III backs according to those rankings:

 

FirstN LastN           City                Sp       El        Pw      Ha     rate

Emmitt Smith           Dallas             93.0    93.0    70.0    82.0    96.5

Barry Sanders         Detroit             89.0    98.0    60.0    80.0    91.5

Natrone Means       San Diego       87.0    73.0    87.0    69.0    91.2

Barry Foster            Carolina          87.0    78.0    82.0    81.0    91.0

Chris Warren           Seattle            87.0    85.0    70.0    60.0    86.9

Kijana Carter           Cincinnati        87.0    85.0    70.0    54.0    86.3

Marshall Faulk         Indianapolis    90.0    85.0    60.0    66.0    85.6

Byron Morris            Pittsburgh       80.0    74.0    82.0    78.0    85.2

Rod Bernstine         Denver            81.0    58.0    90.0    69.0    84.9

Jerome Bettis          Saint Louis      84.0    62.0    82.0    54.0    81.6

Eric Metcalf             Atlanta             86.0    94.0    42.0    80.0    80.6

Rodney Hampton    New York         84.0    77.0    60.0    77.0    79.3

Mel Gray                 Houston           81.0    91.0    45.0    76.0    76.7

Rashaan Salaam    Chicago           74.0    78.0    70.0    76.0    76.6

Terry Allen               Washington     81.0    79.0    60.0    63.0    76.6

RB Bills                   Buffalo             86.0    87.0    42.0    68.0    76.6

Herschel Walker      New York        72.0    62.0    77.0    90.0    75.0

Reggie Cobb          Jacksonville     64.0    51.0    92.0    79.0    74.8

Gary Brown            Houston           77.0    68.0    77.0    40.0    74.8

Leonard Russell     Saint Louis       81.0    66.0    70.0    57.0    74.8

 

If we broaden it to include all skill-position players (including WRs and TEs), a few new names pop up:

 

FirstN LastN           City              Sp       El        Pw     Ha       rate

Emmitt Smith           Dallas            93.0    93.0    70.0    82.0    96.5

Barry Sanders         Detroit            89.0    98.0    60.0    80.0    91.5

Natrone Means       San Diego      87.0    73.0    87.0    69.0    91.2

Barry Foster            Carolina         87.0    78.0    82.0    81.0    91.0

Jerry Rice              San Fran        94.0    91.0    50.0    98.0    90.0

Chris Warren           Seattle           87.0    85.0    70.0    60.0    86.9

Kijana Carter           Cincinnati       87.0    85.0    70.0    54.0    86.3

Marshall Faulk        Indianapolis    90.0    85.0    60.0    66.0    85.6

Byron Morris           Pittsburgh       80.0    74.0    82.0    78.0    85.2

Rod Bernstine         Denver           81.0    58.0    90.0    69.0    84.9

Andre Rison          Cleveland      90.0    98.0    39.0    74.0    83.2

Eric Green              Miami            72.0    58.0    92.0    94.0    83.2

Jerome Bettis          Saint Louis     84.0    62.0    82.0    54.0    81.6

Eric Metcalf             Atlanta            86.0    94.0    42.0    80.0    80.6

Tim Brown             Oakland         84.0    94.0    39.0    94.0    79.4

Rodney Hampton    New York        84.0    77.0    60.0    77.0    79.3

Raghib Ismail        Oakland          87.0    89.0    39.0    82.0    78.3

Ben Coates            New Engl       74.0    55.0    87.0    72.0    78.3

Mel Gray                 Houston          81.0    91.0    45.0    76.0    76.7

Rashaan Salaam    Chicago          74.0    78.0    70.0    76.0    76.6

 

In our old TSB III leagues, Ismail was always slotted in at RB for the Raiders; the other four weren't often put in the backfield because they were too valuable as pass receivers (though I did have New England, and I probably should have used Coates in hindsight).

 

So, what do you think?  Does this jive with your experience of these players?  What stars have you found that don't show up on this list?  Is there someone here that shouldn't be?

 

I'll keep these threads going, and eventually I'll attach my full rankings - I'm still fiddling with the other positions to find numbers that I like.

Edited May 14, 2014 by deadfaulkner

[CheapCatch]

Fun exercise:

 

     I am surprised that Metcalf and Gray made your list, since I know how we feel about the "scatback" type RBs in TSB III.

 

    I'd replace those guys with Watters (PHI) and maybe....not sure exactly who:  Rhett (TAM), Butts (NE), or H Williams (OAK)

 

    I am also not sure if Reggie Cobb belongs on the list.  As you know I had JAX both seasons in our old league, and JAX is definitely not noted for its run game.  Cobb, as I recall, was pretty inconsistent.  He had short bursts where he'd get in a groove plowing people over, but mostly he was just slow and easily stoppable.  Makes me wonder if Pete Johnson needs to be made in the mold of Cobb, which would simply mean reducing his RP, as Cobb has 19.  Cobb otherwise is 44/75, but he's no Pete Johnson I can assure you. 

[Knobbe]

In TSB NES if you have a 50 hp advantage as an offensive player, you popcorn the defender.

Have the offensive HP advantages in TSB III been documented?

[Eric]

How are the four categories calculated?  Or did you just rename them?

[TecSpectre]

I don't think it's been mapped, but I'm not sure it's necessary. Hp justs seems to compare to hp. Higher wins generally. Adding in things like grappling, steamrolling, dragging i guess cutoffs be mapped, but they seem inconsistent.

[Knobbe]

I don't think it's been mapped, but I'm not sure it's necessary. Hp justs seems to compare to hp. Higher wins generally. Adding in things like grappling, steamrolling, dragging i guess cutoffs be mapped, but they seem inconsistent.

 

Tecmo is a program. Inconsistencies are designed randomness that make the program appear more dynamic. 

I would suspect that you lose MS if you have to steamroll a guy as opposed to popcorning him so it does matter.

[CheapCatch]

Knobbe-

 

    I don't know if my comments here are relevant at all to why you were inquiring about HP in TSB III.

 

    The HP discrepancy might entail in TSB III, although I am not sure.  What I can say is that popcorning is quite a rarity in TSB III.  What I have found with high HP guys in general is that all of the sudden they are unstoppable on a particular play as they plow through like ten guys in route to a long run.  However, this will be preceded and followed by runs where this does not occur, and the Reggie Cobb-esque player is handled pretty easily by the defense, drones and human player alike.  Essentially they disappear for the rest of the game.  I have no idea what causes this, but at times, these guys seem to get bees in their bonnet.

 

     At least in our current TSB III league (now about 4 full seasons in) almost unequivocally the most successful running backs are those with speed (typically 56 MS and above, despite HP)----in the coming week I'll list the attributes associated with RBs who had the best rushing seasons in the TLL.  Higher HP guys, especially with lower MS, say 44 and below, are not proven to be nearly as effective, mostly due to their inconsistency, as mentioned above.

[joelcsuh]

I've attributed this to either less variance on the HP scale or some kind of bonus given to the CPU. (I haven't played MAN vs. MAN in 10 years.) On offense in the NES version I could almost always eventually throw the guy grabbing me if no one came in to help. In TSBIII I can get tackled even if using turbo. On defense, I've been thrown by the CPU, even using turbo, which never happens to me on the NES version.

[TecSpectre]

The biggest factor for HP in TSB3 is that HP actually matters. So it doesn't matter how fast your hit the A button to shake a tackle, if your HP is 13 and your opponent is 31+. Generally, you need to be within 1 bump in HP in order for the A button to really factor.

There are times when it seems the computer gets bonuses. I've seen 50hp guys solo tackle 75hp guys when the 50hp guy is comp controlled.

There are other instances. I've seen 63hp, man controlled LBs, toss 75+ HP fullbacks to the ground, solo, without any real grapple happening... but this has only occurred when behind the line of scrimmage.

Knobbe, as to the drag thing. I believe there is a set speed for the drag. Because some guys, when they drag, get faster... and others get slower. The biggest issue in determining these factors is that I have always found that created players, modded players, seem to play differently than base guys in the game. This might be due to hidden factors in the game, I don't know.

However, the base design of the game is that fullbacks have the HP, running backs have the MS... and there are a few players that bridge the gap (Jerome Bettis, Byron Morris, Barry Foster, Natrone Means)

[joelcsuh]

For created players, I recall rushing power functioning as hitting power when behind the line of scrimmage. Getting to the line is such a big deal in TSBIII