bruddog Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 This guy drives me nuts sometimes... no offense dude but seriously. malferds (12:14:43 AM): 69 RS is still not affecting MS malferds (12:14:55 AM): but 75 does start to jump it up significantly? bruddog (12:15:07 AM): what do you mean malferds (12:15:24 AM): a rb with 69RS and 50 MS bruddog (12:15:32 AM): will run at 50ms malferds (12:15:40 AM): and rb with 75 RS malferds (12:15:43 AM): will go a little faster malferds (12:15:45 AM): 56 bruddog (12:15:48 AM): wiwrong bruddog (12:15:50 AM): wrong bruddog (12:15:58 AM): he will start faster malferds (12:16:05 AM): hmmmm bruddog (12:16:14 AM): RS is starting speed malferds (12:16:16 AM): yes malferds (12:16:17 AM): but malferds (12:16:30 AM): take a qb and give him 100 RS malferds (12:16:32 AM): and 0MS malferds (12:16:36 AM): and he can fly bruddog (12:16:38 AM): he will run at 56ms malferds (12:16:43 AM): ahhhhhhhhh bruddog (12:16:43 AM): instantly malferds (12:16:54 AM): im confused now bruddog (12:17:04 AM): i thought i explained this before malferds (12:17:10 AM): wait malferds (12:17:19 AM): so, it is NOT the amount of RS over 69 bruddog (12:17:23 AM): no malferds (12:17:25 AM): its the amount of RS over MS malferds (12:17:26 AM): ? bruddog (12:17:30 AM): no malferds (12:17:33 AM): ohh boy malferds (12:18:05 AM): i dont know how the RS boosts MS then bruddog (12:18:11 AM): it doesn't bruddog (12:18:13 AM): fucking A malferds (12:18:18 AM): then malferds (12:18:25 AM): how come a QB with 100RS malferds (12:18:28 AM): will go fast malferds (12:18:35 AM): even with 6ms malferds (12:18:41 AM): that is BOOSTING MS malferds (12:18:42 AM): isnt it? bruddog (12:19:11 AM): because if the coverted RS value is greater than the MS value they will travel at that value all the time malferds (12:19:37 AM): please use simple terms malferds (12:19:41 AM): im simple minded bruddog (12:19:43 AM): 50RS=06ms bruddog (12:19:48 AM): 56RS=13ms malferds (12:19:51 AM): no no no bruddog (12:19:53 AM): 63RS=19ms malferds (12:19:55 AM): please dont! malferds (12:19:57 AM): ahhhhhh bruddog (12:19:57 AM): YES yES YES bruddog (12:19:59 AM): dude bruddog (12:20:06 AM): RS is the starting speed malferds (12:20:09 AM): in my mind malferds (12:20:11 AM): if you tell me malferds (12:20:19 AM): 50RS=6ms malferds (12:20:21 AM): then it dies malferds (12:20:23 AM): does malferds (12:20:26 AM): does =6ms malferds (12:20:29 AM): and therefore malferds (12:20:42 AM): if a rb has 56RS and 50MS malferds (12:20:50 AM): i say the 50rs =6ms malferds (12:20:54 AM): so therefore 56MS malferds (12:21:04 AM): and u say malferds (12:21:05 AM): nope malferds (12:21:07 AM): and i say malferds (12:21:13 AM): "FUCKING SHOOT ME NOW" bruddog (12:21:25 AM): i don;t know how to explain it any simpler malferds (12:21:40 AM): how about this malferds (12:21:42 AM): is this true bruddog (12:21:43 AM): say 50ms = 10mph bruddog (12:21:59 AM): 94rs also= 10mph malferds (12:22:02 AM): 50RS is the same take off speed as 6ms is maximum speed malferds (12:22:14 AM): they are not the same thing malferds (12:22:24 AM): and they work off each other malferds (12:22:30 AM): give me full player malferds (12:22:41 AM): 94 RS 50MS = malferds (12:22:51 AM): 6RS 50 MS = bruddog (12:23:25 AM): 94RS 50MS= start at 50ms and continue at that speed. RP is irrelevant malferds (12:23:37 AM): omg, malferds (12:23:51 AM): your saying that any RS over the MS is useless malferds (12:23:54 AM): and never used? bruddog (12:24:09 AM): AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhh bruddog (12:24:39 AM): to continue with your example bruddog (12:24:43 AM): 88RS 50ms bruddog (12:24:48 AM): = bruddog (12:25:01 AM): starts at 44ms and accelerates to 50ms malferds (12:25:05 AM): woah malferds (12:25:09 AM): woah malferds (12:25:18 AM): ummm bruddog (12:25:19 AM): rp will still be almost useless malferds (12:25:34 AM): umm bruddog (12:25:42 AM): like i said 50rs= start at 06ms malferds (12:25:44 AM): i hate you, now your making me go test this bruddog (12:25:58 AM): its much easier to test with wr's malferds (12:26:07 AM): ever test qb's? bruddog (12:26:08 AM): starting at the same point and running the same route malferds (12:26:19 AM): i did bruddog (12:26:22 AM): its all the same malferds (12:26:25 AM): when i was making the all time greats malferds (12:26:33 AM): and when i gave a qb high RS malferds (12:26:39 AM): it make him very very good bruddog (12:26:44 AM): how hig malferds (12:26:52 AM): 75-100 malferds (12:27:04 AM): anything over 69 bruddog (12:27:07 AM): ya that means hes starting at 31-56ms bruddog (12:27:08 AM): lol malferds (12:27:16 AM): and then slows down? bruddog (12:27:18 AM): no malferds (12:27:28 AM): with 6MS malferds (12:27:32 AM): he runs at 56 ms bruddog (12:27:38 AM): let me try one more time malferds (12:28:09 AM): with 6ms you said he never runs faster than his MS bruddog (12:28:10 AM): 50rs=starts at 06ms, 56rs=starts at 13ms, 63rs=starts at 19ms, 69rs=starts at 25ms bruddog (12:28:17 AM): follow me on that? malferds (12:28:22 AM): sure... bruddog (12:28:22 AM): so far malferds (12:28:25 AM): i could care less malferds (12:28:30 AM): at what they start at malferds (12:28:40 AM): i am just wondering about the effect on MS bruddog (12:28:44 AM): lets use 69 rs bruddog (12:28:56 AM): that means starts at 25ms bruddog (12:29:15 AM): that means if you give him an ms of 25ms or less bruddog (12:29:25 AM): he will travel at 25ms all the time malferds (12:29:34 AM): sure malferds (12:29:37 AM): i believe that bruddog (12:29:38 AM): he won't ever slow down to 19ms,13ms,06ms malferds (12:29:43 AM): yes bruddog (12:29:59 AM): that is how it works malferds (12:30:02 AM): but malferds (12:30:05 AM): 75 RS malferds (12:30:14 AM): he will never go below 31 MS bruddog (12:30:17 AM): yes malferds (12:30:18 AM): !!!!!!!!!!!!! bruddog (12:30:19 AM): correct malferds (12:30:25 AM): WHAT malferds (12:30:30 AM): now your changing your story? bruddog (12:30:47 AM): no malferds (12:30:49 AM): bruddog (2:23:22 AM): 94RS 50MS= start at 50ms and continue at that speed. RP is irrelevant bruddog (12:31:04 AM): yes 94RS= start at 50ms malferds (12:31:11 AM): at 94 RS 50MS the RB will be running at like 69MS bruddog (12:31:15 AM): no bruddog (12:31:25 AM): he starts at 50ms malferds (12:31:30 AM): not starting malferds (12:31:33 AM): MAX bruddog (12:31:47 AM): 94rs =50ms starting malferds (12:31:48 AM): starting is gay bruddog (12:31:56 AM): 50ms starting = 50ms max malferds (12:32:05 AM): ok pause malferds (12:32:06 AM): then why malferds (12:32:13 AM): does 75RS 25MS malferds (12:32:24 AM): top out at 31ms? bruddog (12:32:47 AM): malferds (12:30:02 AM): but malferds (12:30:05 AM): 75 RS malferds (12:30:14 AM): he will never go below 31 MS malferds (12:32:56 AM): yes bruddog (12:33:00 AM): he doesn't top out malferds (12:33:02 AM): topping out and stating topped out malferds (12:33:13 AM): so he goes faster than 31 ? bruddog (12:33:16 AM): 75RS is already faster than 25ms malferds (12:33:18 AM): with a MS of 25 bruddog (12:33:19 AM): its 31ms malferds (12:33:36 AM): so his MS increases by 6 bruddog (12:33:55 AM): dude you are fucking retarded. im done malferds (12:34:02 AM): ugh malferds (12:34:08 AM): and i thought i made progress bruddog (12:34:14 AM): 75RS=31ms bruddog (12:34:17 AM): 75RS=31ms bruddog (12:34:21 AM): 75rs=31ms bruddog (12:34:29 AM): 81rs=38ms bruddog (12:34:34 AM): 81rs=38ms bruddog (12:34:40 AM): 100rs=56ms malferds (12:34:50 AM): ms to me has NOTHING to do with taking of malferds (12:34:51 AM): f bruddog (12:34:57 AM): they are the fucking smae thing malferds (12:34:58 AM): it means MAximum SPeed bruddog (12:34:59 AM): dude bruddog (12:35:48 AM): say 50ms=100mph malferds (12:35:48 AM): either u suck at teaching or im fucking hopeless bruddog (12:36:00 AM): 06RS also=100mph bruddog (12:36:14 AM): the fact they are labeled startting and maxium doesn't mean shit bruddog (12:36:29 AM): sorry 94RSalso = 100mph not 06 rs malferds (12:36:38 AM): ok sooo bruddog (12:37:13 AM): think of it like a car malferds (12:37:20 AM): 94rs 6rp 6ms =100mph and 6rs 6rp 50ms=100mph bruddog (12:37:29 AM): yes bruddog (12:37:36 AM): oh wait not bruddog (12:37:37 AM): no malferds (12:37:39 AM): top speed bruddog (12:37:50 AM): top speed yes malferds (12:38:01 AM): so bruddog (12:38:18 AM): i can send you my spreadsheet again malferds (12:38:25 AM): 94rs 6ms will go just as fast as 6rs 50ms? bruddog (12:38:30 AM): faster bruddog (12:38:33 AM): not faster bruddog (12:38:35 AM): but bruddog (12:38:44 AM): he will start at his top speed instantly malferds (12:38:58 AM): RB malferds (12:39:01 AM): this is for RB malferds (12:39:08 AM): right? bruddog (12:39:10 AM): any position bruddog (12:39:39 AM): i can send you my spreadsheet again bruddog (12:39:59 AM): you just type in rs rp ms values and will compare two players malferds (12:40:05 AM): i dont believe your spreadshee malferds (12:40:06 AM): t malferds (12:40:12 AM): i would beleive proven tecmo tests bruddog (12:40:14 AM): then your a fucking idiot bruddog (12:40:24 AM): i timed wr's going downt he field malferds (12:40:29 AM): ok bruddog (12:40:39 AM): i didn't pull this out of my ass malferds (12:40:45 AM): but malferds (12:41:02 AM): did you make the equations based on the normal attributes malferds (12:41:15 AM): or did you use a 100RS 6rp 6ms guy? bruddog (12:41:31 AM): i used many vartions malferds (12:41:35 AM): ok ummm bruddog (12:41:42 AM): 100rs 06rp 06ms was one of them malferds (12:41:43 AM): lets say malferds (12:41:51 AM): that is the top wr malferds (12:42:16 AM): and the bottom guy has 63RS 6rp 50ms malferds (12:42:26 AM): who will have the fastest top speed? malferds (12:42:48 AM): (at 40 yards) bruddog (12:43:02 AM): one sec bruddog (12:43:26 AM): so 100 6 6 vs 63 6 50 at 40 yards malferds (12:43:33 AM): yes malferds (12:43:42 AM): 100 rs guy should smoke him malferds (12:43:48 AM): im going to edit a rom right now bruddog (12:44:30 AM): 100rs guy will have him beat by ~2yards malferds (12:44:41 AM): ok umm malferds (12:45:17 AM): thats telling me that the 6ms guy has a DAMN fast MS higher than 6 bruddog (12:45:35 AM): you truly are hopeless bruddog (12:45:51 AM): its like going in circles with you malferds (12:46:30 AM): im going to have to post this on the board and see if anyone is willing to school the handicapped bruddog (12:46:40 AM): im going to post this entire conversation malferds (12:46:44 AM): lol malferds (12:46:46 AM): please bruddog (12:47:02 AM): think about it like a car bruddog (12:47:19 AM): the big thing that keeps stumping you bruddog (12:48:02 AM): is that if the RS speed in terms of what it equals in a true speed value bruddog (12:48:07 AM): is greater than the ms value bruddog (12:48:16 AM): they don't slow down to that ms value bruddog (12:48:37 AM): so in effect their real MS bruddog (12:48:41 AM): is the RS value bruddog (12:49:18 AM): so again think of it like a car that can only acclerate bruddog (12:49:28 AM): never slow down bruddog (12:49:43 AM): say the car's top speed was listed at 50mph malferds (12:49:47 AM): yeah i thought i got that bruddog (12:49:55 AM): say somehow it got started at 100mph bruddog (12:50:06 AM): since it can oly accelerate and not slow down bruddog (12:50:15 AM): it won't slow down to 50mph bruddog (12:50:26 AM): rather it just continues on at 100mph malferds (12:50:27 AM): yeah bruddog (12:50:43 AM): sot he 100rs guy starts off at 56ms bruddog (12:50:51 AM): that is his real ms malferds (12:51:21 AM): ok malferds (12:51:23 AM): cool malferds (12:51:25 AM): thats what i was saying bruddog (12:51:26 AM): anything less than 63ms and he won't accelerate to a highger value bruddog (12:51:35 AM): he will just continue on at 56ms bruddog (12:51:47 AM): he also won't slow down malferds (12:51:55 AM): bruddog (2:51:23 AM): anything less than 63ms and he won't accelerate to a highger value malferds (12:52:01 AM): did u write that correct? bruddog (12:52:04 AM): right bruddog (12:52:25 AM): so tthe 100rs 06 rp 06ms bruddog (12:52:32 AM): he starts at 56ms continues at 56ms bruddog (12:52:38 AM): 100rs 38rp 38ms bruddog (12:52:44 AM): starts at 56ms continues at 56ms bruddog (12:53:09 AM): 100rs 06rp 63ms starts at 56ms acclerates to 63ms bruddog (12:53:53 AM): just when you say a max speed boost its not really that malferds (12:54:14 AM): his maximum running speed is much higher malferds (12:54:22 AM): thats all im saying malferds (12:54:27 AM): higher MS malferds (12:54:34 AM): from having extra RS bruddog (12:55:58 AM): so here is one bruddog (12:56:28 AM): an 81 rs 6rp 44ms will be just about dead even with a 38 rs 6rp 100ms guy for the first 20 yards malferds (12:58:14 AM): ok malferds (12:58:15 AM): hey malferds (12:58:27 AM): on a 75 yard sprint malferds (12:58:33 AM): i have 2 wr'sin malferds (12:58:37 AM): in a rom malferds (12:58:38 AM): right now bruddog (12:58:39 AM): k malferds (12:58:42 AM): top wr malferds (12:58:52 AM): was at the 0 yard line malferds (12:58:56 AM): when the bottom wr malferds (12:59:01 AM): was on the 12 malferds (12:59:07 AM): the top wr being 12 yards ahead malferds (12:59:12 AM): (faster) bruddog (12:59:13 AM): k bruddog (12:59:45 AM): ratings? malferds (12:59:52 AM): TOP wr = 100 100 63 malferds (12:59:57 AM): bottom 100 100 6 malferds (1:00:02 AM): that proves nothing malferds (1:00:05 AM): anyway malferds (1:00:16 AM): im trying to disprove you somehow.... malferds (1:00:18 AM): AH malferds (1:01:00 AM): 100 100 6 vs 69-100-44 malferds (1:01:09 AM): whos faster? bruddog (1:02:19 AM): top guy bruddog (1:02:21 AM): 100 100 6 bruddog (1:03:07 AM): he starts at a speed faster than the 69 100 44 guy will ever get to malferds (1:03:31 AM): so his MS is higher malferds (1:03:40 AM): take that back bruddog (1:03:45 AM): sigh..................................................................... malferds (1:03:47 AM): his Maximum top speed malferds (1:03:50 AM): is faster bruddog (1:04:00 AM): yes malferds (1:04:05 AM): thats what MS malferds (1:04:08 AM): stands for malferds (1:04:11 AM): maximum speed malferds (1:04:16 AM): and its faster bruddog (1:04:26 AM): im just going to post this conversation for you malferds (1:04:31 AM): lol bruddog (1:04:31 AM): read it about 100 times bruddog (1:04:35 AM): maybe it will sink in bruddog (1:04:41 AM): its like im talking to a wall bruddog (1:04:53 AM): and repeating the same concepts over and over malferds (1:05:12 AM): top guy was 6 or so yards ahead on a 90 yard bomb bruddog (1:05:36 AM): yup thats about right malferds (1:05:40 AM): so any RS higher than 69 mades a difference? malferds (1:05:50 AM): on the MAXIMUM TOP SPEED malferds (1:06:06 AM): since i have to spell the whole thing out for it to compute correctly bruddog (1:06:27 AM): malferds (12:14:43 AM): 69 RS is still not affecting MS malferds (12:14:55 AM): but 75 does start to jump it up significantly? bruddog (1:06:33 AM): we are back to square one malferds (1:06:38 AM): yes bruddog (1:06:39 AM): i give up malferds (1:06:43 AM): i truely believe that malferds (1:06:51 AM): im testing it now malferds (1:07:13 AM): comparing a 31 RS buy to a 69 RS guy bruddog (1:07:14 AM): i believe you don't understand the basica concept of a starting speed, acceleration and maxium speed malferds (1:07:22 AM): no i do malferds (1:07:36 AM): but i think that the acceleration period is Pointless malferds (1:07:38 AM): and null malferds (1:07:43 AM): and i could care less about it bruddog (1:07:45 AM): WRONG malferds (1:08:01 AM): oh bruddog (1:08:03 AM): sometimes it can be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
averagetsbplayer Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 now, i'm fucking lost with this concept after reading that.bruddog, please answer these questions and check this chart so i know if i'm rightMS is the minimum speed the guy can travel with a given RS:50RS = 06MS56RS = 13MS 63RS = 19MS69RS = 25MS75RS = 31MS81RS = 38MS88RS = 44MS94RS = 50MS100RS = 56MS1. 100RS, 6RP, 6MS guy goes 56MS all the time? 2. 100RS, 6RP, 63MS guy goes 63MS all the time?3. 50RS, 6RP, 6MS guy goes 6MS all the time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malferds Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 to get one thing strait: My whole argument concerns how the RS attribute affects Maximum top Speed (MS)i just started to read this again...this all started by me saying that a 75rs RB will go faster than a 69rs RB (both having 50ms).. first it was no, then it was yes...anyone, who can say exactly what my missunderstanding is PLEASE tell me. i know near the end of the convo i used the word "MS" and got a "no" in reply, but then used the exact terms only changing to the words "maximum top speed" and got a yes... so, i think maybe we were just confusing the basic terms or something... RS to me= starting speedRP to me=accelleration to top speed MS to me= MAXIMUM SPEED, top speed, highest speed, no more go any faster fucking speedMS DOES NOT= minimum speed, in any way shape or form.i tested these 2 wr's and it was almost a tie (maybe a yard difference at most)75-100-75vs69-100-81 =~my theory, based on something i read a long time ago is that any RS higher than 69 starts to affect the MS. but i have not tested this, so i asked brudd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruddog Posted July 2, 2006 Author Share Posted July 2, 2006 Malferds you keep thinking about it wrong. I'm just going to list a bunch of examples.first the conversion table 50RS = 06MS 56RS = 13MS 63RS = 19MS 69RS = 25MS 75RS = 31MS 81RS = 38MS 88RS = 44MS 94RS = 50MS 100RS = 56MS The second thing to know is that if a players converted RS is higher than the ms value given to him he will travel at the RS value all the time. THis means to quote malferds his "taking off speed" is greater than his "LISTED" MS he will travel at his "taking off speed" the whole time.THus, his "taking off speed" is his "maxiimum speed" Otherwise he will accelerate to his MS value.AVgtsbplayer. Your list was right except for2. 100RS 6RP 63MS. He starts at 56MS and accelerates to 63MS. Though this transition will be almost instananeous even with 6RP. To use malf's magical 75RS threshhold. LOLA 75RS 06RP 50MS RB will start at 31ms and accelerate to 50msA 69RS 06RP 50MS RB will start at 25ms and accelerate to 50msA 100RS 06RP 50MS RB will instantly start at a 56MS he will not slow downto his assigned max speed value of 06MSA 100RS 06 RP 06MS RB will instantly start at 56MS he will not slow down to his assigned max speed value of 06MSBack to malferds first question. He keeps stating things wrong. A 75RS RB vs a 69RS RB that have the same RP/MS will not go "faster." In a straight line race yes the 75RS RB will win but its not because he's "Faster". Both RB's have the same top speed. However the 75RS RB starts at 31MS while the 69RS starts at 25MS. Thus the 75RS gets to his top speed sooner thus getting to his destination sooner. If you want to call that faster in your fucked up mind malferds go ahead, but it means you have no concept of what a starting speed, acceleration and max speed are just plain stating things wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstout Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Here is the straight up data and how it works.Here is the default skill chart:Skill RS RP MS* 6 0E 0D 15/25 13 0F 0C 16/26 19 10 0B 17/27 25 11 0A 18/28 31 12 09 19/29 38 13 08 1A/2A 44 14 07 1B/2B 50 15 06 1C/2C 56 16 05 1D/2D 63 17 04 1E/2E 69 18 03 1F/2F 75 19 03 20/30 81 1A 02 21/31 88 1B 02 22/32 94 1C 01 23/33 100 1D 01 24/34*Offense/DefenseWhen a player is standing still he has zero speed. Once he moves his speed is equal to RS and his RP starts. Every player cycle, RP is decreased by 1 and when his RP is equal to 0 then his RS is increased by 1 and RP restarts. With each RS increase the player will speed up. Once RS is equal or greater to MS then the player stops accelerating.RS Chart is x2BE84 to x2BE93RP Chart is x2BE74 to x2BE83MS Chart is x3DFDF to x3DFEE (Offense)MS Chart is x3DFEF to x3DFFE (Defense) DFM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malferds Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 ok, i understand now brudd. i just thought the RS would add on to MS somehow...jstout: is it possible to alter the offensive MS chart in the rom so that all offensive players would be slower. main objective to slow down the 6ms qb's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstout Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 jstout: is it possible to alter the offensive MS chart in the rom so that all offensive players would be slower. main objective to slow down the 6ms qb's.Yeah, you can make them all faster, slower, the same, or whatever you like. Just have to remember that all the offensive/defensive players will use this based upon their skill.To slow down a 6 MS QB by changing MS, remember to make thier RS equal or lower to the speed you want else they would hit their max at the snap because of RS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brakos81 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 I STILL can't believe you two sat and talked about RS and MS for nearly an hour. I would fall asleep after about 5 minutes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
looked Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 If 50 RS = 6 MS, does that mean 6-44 RS are all the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruddog Posted September 24, 2006 Author Share Posted September 24, 2006 No it does not. 06-44RS are less than 50RS. if you refer to the chart above 44RS=14 in hex 50RS=06ms=15hex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruddog Posted March 30, 2007 Author Share Posted March 30, 2007 bump for moonwalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruddog Posted May 17, 2013 Author Share Posted May 17, 2013 bump for people that don't understand why RS and RP are so important on defense with original rom ratings and MS not so much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tecmonster Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Bruddog, I love your speed worksheet but I do have to take issue with the popular notion around here that a 69 RP makes RS almost useless. Because the first 10-15 yards of a running back's carry is usually A LOT of cutting (starting, stopping, and re-starting your speed metrics), even a split second delay in speed burst can really make a big difference in one running back with a high RS vs. another running back with a low RS, even if both have a 69 RP. For instance, in Drummer's rom, I believe Arian Foster is rated at 75-69-63. Meanwhile, Adrian Peterson is at 38-69-75. I've played with both and it's clear than Foster is the better runner despite being two notches lower in MS. It's not even that close because running back's hardly ever run linearly in TSB. Even if you can zig-zag your way through the defensive box and break into the clear, you're still zig-zagging because that's just the best way to run in TSB. Foster doesn't seem to lose speed when he cuts but Peterson definitely does and when you add up all those instances of lost split-seconds, it's huge. I still reduced RP on the offensive side to bring more balance to all four numbers, but I think that reducing it to, say, 13-44 as I've seen mentioned before, is far too much given the non-linear way that we run with the football in TSB. quince3800 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruddog Posted May 17, 2013 Author Share Posted May 17, 2013 Are you sure it's a not a controller,lag issue, or the way your are juking/cutting? I'm just asking because I'm not sure where you tested this. I'll admit I'm not clear on exactly what kind of movement or lack of movement causes the player to go back to the starting RS value. If any cut does, then I can buy your argument. You shouldn't be losing speed when you zig zag. At least it doesn't appear to me that you do With a good controller and little lag I'm pretty sure you don't lose any speed or go back to the starting RS if you are making " slightly circular" cuts. If you are making stop and start cuts then yes every little bit of RS and RP is useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgboud2 Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 I would say it is not useless, but it takes a huge jump to matter such as from 38 to 63. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tecmonster Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Are you sure it's a not a controller,lag issue, or the way your are juking/cutting? I'm just asking because I'm not sure where you tested this. I'll admit I'm not clear on exactly what kind of movement or lack of movement causes the player to go back to the starting RS value. If any cut does, then I can buy your argument. You shouldn't be losing speed when you zig zag. At least it doesn't appear to me that you do With a good controller and little lag I'm pretty sure you don't lose any speed or go back to the starting RS if you are making " slightly circular" cuts. If you are making stop and start cuts then yes every little bit of RS and RP is useful. Well, I don't play online so that's a variable we can eliminate, and I've used the same controller since I started so we can eliminate that too. I'm playing my second season with Adrian Peterson in my backfield after winning our league's MVP with Foster last year and I really miss Foster. The guy who drafted Foster this year (we have salary caps and Foster is the highest paid player . . . based on total attribute points) is destroying everyone else in the MVP standings. Ironically, he had Peterson last year and didn't make the top 5 in the MVP standings with him. I truly think a player's speed resets to his RS at a 45 degree or higher angle cut. I just ran two breakaways with Foster and Peterson and the speed loss while zig-zagging w/A.P. is a noticeable deficiency vs. Foster. Again, this doesn't mean I advocate using 69 RP for all offensive players because I don't. I just think that using an RP range as low as 13-44 is too much. My new range is 25-69 and my average starting offensive skill player is 44. My average overall for offense is 38. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruddog Posted May 17, 2013 Author Share Posted May 17, 2013 25-69 is a good range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buck Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Here is the straight up data and how it works.Here is the default skill chart:Skill RS RP MS* 6 0E 0D 15/25 13 0F 0C 16/26 19 10 0B 17/27 25 11 0A 18/28 31 12 09 19/29 38 13 08 1A/2A 44 14 07 1B/2B 50 15 06 1C/2C 56 16 05 1D/2D 63 17 04 1E/2E 69 18 03 1F/2F 75 19 03 20/30 81 1A 02 21/31 88 1B 02 22/32 94 1C 01 23/33 100 1D 01 24/34*Offense/DefenseWhen a player is standing still he has zero speed. Once he moves his speed is equal to RS and his RP starts. Every player cycle, RP is decreased by 1 and when his RP is equal to 0 then his RS is increased by 1 and RP restarts. With each RS increase the player will speed up. Once RS is equal or greater to MS then the player stops accelerating.RS Chart is x2BE84 to x2BE93RP Chart is x2BE74 to x2BE83MS Chart is x3DFDF to x3DFEE (Offense)MS Chart is x3DFEF to x3DFFE (Defense) what else is there to say? RS matters. Go give a guy a 94 RS, do some "stop and go" cuts/bursts...you will feel it. they will be "faster" for a split second.I also think I can feel Neal Anderson's extra notches of RS - sharper cutting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tecmonster Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 In my rom, I re-named RS to "Quickness," RP to "Acceleration," and MS to "Speed." It obviously doens't change a thing, functionally, but it just makes more sense that way, I think. bruddog 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruddog Posted May 18, 2013 Author Share Posted May 18, 2013 yes. In my rom, I re-named RS to "Quickness," RP to "Acceleration," and MS to "Speed." It obviously doens't change a thing, functionally, but it just makes more sense that way, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruddog Posted May 18, 2013 Author Share Posted May 18, 2013 I guess I'll have to play around some more. I'm not convinced I would want a 75rs 63ms guy over a 38rs 75ms guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buck Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 I guess I'll have to play around some more. I'm not convinced I would want a 75rs 63ms guy over a 38rs 75ms guy. no, not saying that man! just saying that you can make some unique "feeling" RBs by bumping RS. MS is still the best, you know that! bruddog 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tecmonster Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 I guess I'll have to play around some more. I'm not convinced I would want a 75rs 63ms guy over a 38rs 75ms guy. Yeah, I recommend it. Grab Drummer's rom and play some games with Foster, then with Peterson. I didn't think so either until I played a full season with each. Maybe I cut too much with Peterson instead of just letting him stretch out to his MS but, at the very least, I think you'll agree that Foster is a better slasher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruddog Posted May 18, 2013 Author Share Posted May 18, 2013 Well that was tecmonsters assertion.... . Yes, tweaking both RS and RP gives you different feeling RB's no, not saying that man! just saying that you can make some unique "feeling" RBs by bumping RS. MS is still the best, you know that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFM Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Why is this a new thing on the forums? It is awkward to read the reply and then have to read what was replied to after the fact, potentially having to read the awkwardly placed reply again to make sense of it. Well that was tecmonsters assertion.... . Yes, tweaking both RS and RP gives you different feeling RB's Yea, changing stats will make players feel different. 0_o buck 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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