All-time greats on 32-team rom

[MrBeef]

Hey Bo with Minny why not give them the r/s formation as Minny has had alot of great WRs. Just something to comsider for them and any other team you are having problems with as far as a #2 TE.

I didnt loook through all the posts and forgot. Are you also doing kr/pr for your rom?

[BO FB Offtackle Left]

Hey Bo with Minny why not give them the r/s formation as Minny has had alot of great WRs. Just something to comsider for them and any other team you are having problems with as far as a #2 TE.

I didnt loook through all the posts and forgot. Are you also doing kr/pr for your rom?

I'm still undecided on that. Initially I was thinking no, both because a lot of great WRs started out as returners anyway (Lynn Swann, Tim Brown, etc.), and because it's a bitch to rate a guy who is JUST a good return guy and nothing more. I think the 32-team rom has dedicated returners, so you would make a great returner have high ms and low rec, but I've seen vets point out that even with 19rec Bo Jackson and Sam Graddy can still be good receivers. Also, there are really not that many guys who had a great career as returners only - off of recent memory of guys I came across, all I remember is Mel Gray and White Shoes Johnson.

If there is no dedicated returner it doesn't matter, anyway, because everyone will just put in the high hp guy. (and there will be a lot on this rom, both RBs and TEs)

oh, as for formations, I'm being lazy and just giving everyone the standard.

[BO FB Offtackle Left]

ok I decided to include as many old HOFers as I can, so I threw Red Grange on the Bears and I'm even putting Jim Thorpe on the Giants. I started putting a lot of old linemen on the rom just because I want to do detailed searches for linemen as little as possible, so I figured what the hell, as long as I'm putting on the linemen I might as well go back and put in the position players.

[BO FB Offtackle Left]

decided to reduce ms for RBs and WRs globally by one notch (again). The average was way too high and would have made the game almost unplayable. So the max is now 63 and limited to the greatest (or fastest) players - Jim Brown, Barry Sanders, Dickerson, Tomlinson, Jerry Rice, and Bullet Bob Hayes (proclaimed the fastest man alive when playing).

and sorry for completely flooding this thread. This should probably be it until I finish. Offense is completely done except for a few OL, and D is about half done.

[BO FB Offtackle Left]

ok i lied, i'm posting more. making my way through the D.

Rams DL:

RE Jack Youngblood 38/50/56/69

NT Merlin Olsen 38/44/50/69

LE Deacon Jones 38/50/63/81

[MrNFL]

Hey Bo, did you ever get this done?

[Leonard Fournette]

Hey Bo, did you ever get this done?

[BO FB Offtackle Left]

You know, it's crazy. I was done with all the ratings. I was going from team to team doing Sim code, playbooks, and player pics & numbers, and I was about halfway done. Then I just didn't have time to finish and I lost interest. Plus now all the stuff is on the computer at my parents' house.

The thing is, looking up pics and numbers for all those old players is very time consuming. I had a master list of NFL player numbers that someone had posted, but the pics are a lot harder to find sometimes. And then trying to match the Tecmo pics to real pics. I just got bored and didn't want to post it half-finished.

[fatcheerleader]

The thing is, looking up pics and numbers for all those old players is very time consuming. I had a master list of NFL player numbers that someone had posted, but the pics are a lot harder to find sometimes. And then trying to match the Tecmo pics to real pics. I just got bored and didn't want to post it half-finished.

You really should. Adding pics and jersey numbers is great but can be done later in an update. If you've already done the ratings, sim code, and player names then you've done the important part anyway. Post it, post it, post it!

I'm in the process of doing one myself but I'm simply going to take another one from here that is well done and then make the NFC East the way my buddies want them to be specifically. The 6 of us like those 4 teams and I'll customize them for us specifically. The other 28 teams I will use from the original rom creator. I'm more of an editor.

We've also had an on going argument about "All-Time" teams and how they would compare. I'm of the belief, and it's the correct one, that you really can't compare different decades as the new teams are far superior. So, I think the best solution would be to do an "even teams" idea but with maybe 4 or 5 types of teams instead of just 1. I'd love some input from others on this.

[Coach_Bama]

I'm of the belief, and it's the correct one, that you really can't compare different decades as the new teams are far superior.

A good athlete is a good athlete. Overall, players today are bigger because of nutrition, training, and whatever else, but there are plenty of old-timers that would be good in any era. The great ones are unique; Barry Sanders is one of a kind and Dick Butkus was as brutal as they come. Just look at this list of Hall of Famers; pretty much all of them could play today. I think the average teams of today would beat the average teams of yesteryear, but the good ones from all eras would be competitive.

Football is a team sport and teams get on a roll. Chicago had a great defense for most of the 80's but it all came together in 1985. They weren't just dominant; they were scary. They developed a mystique and that can't be measured. Individual players get on a roll, too. In 1991, Mark Rypien was just about perfect. He won't make the Hall of Fame, but he has a Super Bowl ring, and that's what it's all about. Football success can only be measured by direct competition.

A good football player is more than just raw muscle and power, too. It's hard to compare teams from different eras because they can't compete against each other; you can't measure willpower, skill, instinct, mental preperation, and endurance without head-to-head competition. Also, players have always had to play within their coach's schemes and the rules of the time.

Players are bigger, stronger, and faster across the board these days, but football has always been more than that. You can't manufacture toughness and desire. Football comes down to fundamentals, and those techniques weren't invented just yesterday.

[TomTupa]

If today's teams played the old teams just in "time warp to a football field" fashion then yes, today's teams would probably win. If you gave the old teams nutritionists, weight training, modern training equipment and if they grew up with the same knowledge of formations, coaching and such, then they'd probably be even.

[fatcheerleader]

I think that we can go round and round with this and never come to a conclusion. This is why I think I feel like All-Time Greats teams, NFL or NCAA, should be even or some version of even. I've even thought about making every team the same but maybe the Top 20 or 25 players get bumped up. I really wish there was an easy way to fix/create helmets so I could make a 32 team NCAA. I don't have the patience for all that coding.

[BO FB Offtackle Left]

If you have a bunch of players from different eras you don't really have to compare them across eras. What I did was basically pretend I was doing different roms, and only compared players within a given era. For example, with QBs, if you look at career passer rating, the top 14 are from after 1980 (Montana 1979). Number 15 is Otto Graham, who played from 1946-1955. He is the only QB from that era with anything close to a high passer rating, so that tells me he must have been something special, even if I didn't know that already. So I rated Graham among the likes of Steve Young (1), Peyton Manning (2), Tom Brady (5), and Joe Montana (7). Then you continue down the list until you get to Roger Staubach (27), Len Dawson (31) and Sonny Jurgensen (31), all HOFers. Staubach was basically my benchmark for the '70s, Dawson and Jurgensen for the '60s.

Without even having access to my rom, I can tell you those 8 guys were in the top 10 for PC.

I did similar things with the other positions.

[kefkaroth]

when is this going to be released

[toostupid4lyfe]

If you have a bunch of players from different eras you don't really have to compare them across eras. What I did was basically pretend I was doing different roms, and only compared players within a given era. For example, with QBs, if you look at career passer rating, the top 14 are from after 1980 (Montana 1979). Number 15 is Otto Graham, who played from 1946-1955. He is the only QB from that era with anything close to a high passer rating, so that tells me he must have been something special, even if I didn't know that already. So I rated Graham among the likes of Steve Young (1), Peyton Manning (2), Tom Brady (5), and Joe Montana (7). Then you continue down the list until you get to Roger Staubach (27), Len Dawson (31) and Sonny Jurgensen (31), all HOFers. Staubach was basically my benchmark for the '70s, Dawson and Jurgensen for the '60s.

Without even having access to my rom, I can tell you those 8 guys were in the top 10 for PC.

I did similar things with the other positions.

Be careful when analyzing passer ratings across different eras.

That statistic can be misleading as NFL rule changes have gradually made passing more and more easier and defending against passing much and much harder. For instance, many defensive actions that would today constitute infractions, such as pass interference or roughing the passer, were legal until 1978. Concurrently, techniques of offensive line play that are typical in today's game, like extending the arms or blocking with the hands open, were illegal until 1978.

Please read this fantastic article for better explanation and statistical evidence.

[BO FB Offtackle Left]

Of course, that was my whole point. Although it doesn't matter now, because this was never released. Maybe I'll get back to it someday, but for the near future I don't have the time.