New York Tourney '07 Discussion Thread

[biw314]

i've always felt that it was just the risk of kicking a field goal. gotta hit the button on the first pass of the arrow or you're gonna get blocked. just like real football. with the DL, i think it should be fair game except for the immediate dive. and even then, it's only the NT that I worry about.

just one guys opinion.

[long dong chuck long]

Just because you are scared that you wont be able to make FG's shouldn't mean that we should eliminate a position. How bout we make a rule where you cant control fulcher, LT, DT, or Singletary....Its that same line of reasoning. Its the way the game is played. I am NOT promoting lurching, but not being able to use the 4th guy down is just ridiculous.

[edisaurusrex]

I think it would only make sense to use the rules universally applied to just about every league played online and that would mean no DL and no fourth man down on FGs and XPs.

[Knobbe]

The flawed logic there is that no DL are used because this is the easiest way to enforce no lurching and no fourth man used because the lag makes it hard enough to kick fgs. These are rules created because of online play.

I think it would only make sense to use the rules universally applied to just about every league played online and that would mean no DL and no fourth man down on FGs and XPs.

[artoose monk]

but the key here is that we aren't playing online, so how would it affect console play?

[long dong chuck long]

The fact is that we are playing ON THE CONSOLE!!! It would be like using soccer rules to play American football.

[Bad Moon Rison]

Just because you are scared that you wont be able to make FG's shouldn't mean that we should eliminate a position. How bout we make a rule where you cant control fulcher, LT, DT, or Singletary....Its that same line of reasoning. Its the way the game is played.

It's not the same line of reasoning. That would be eliminating a player, not a position. I am assuming that there is no WR at RB or onside kicks unless trailing as well, but I suppose I should've mentioned that before. Just because something is the way it is in the game doesn't mean that it can't be allowed.

I'm no console expert, so I don't know if things are drastically different. Last tournament I hosted, no DL and no 4th man down were rules and everyone respected them. I don't even think one person questioned them. I don't think lag would make a difference, because it would effect the defensive player just as much as the offensive one. But if 4th man down on FGs on the console does not afford someone any time to kick to get the kick off, then I think it shouldn't be allowed.

Oh yeah, total head count seems to be 20-23 so far, depending on those who said they might bring someone.

[Bad Moon Rison]

CONTACT INFO:

If you haven't already, please send me your contact info via PM: Include as much info as you can, your name, phone, e-mail, where you're traveling from, as well as what you can bring.

I don't have a NES myself (been lookin for one), so we definitely need a few more of those.

[biw314]

But if 4th man down on FGs on the console does not afford someone any time to kick to get the kick off, then I think it shouldn't be allowed.

You've gotta be quick, but you can get it off.

I'm not here trying to change rules that you guys have been happy with, just stating how I usually play on the console.

[edisaurusrex]

The fact is that we are playing ON THE CONSOLE!!! It would be like using soccer rules to play American football.

Jeez, its not like its a totally different game just because of a little lag. I mean its hard enough to get off a XP kick without a player like DT all up in your grill, and only a moron would take the time to try to line up one of those. And playing with no DL would totally eliminate the risk and uncertainty of someone mistakingly making a huge play with a DL if they didn't follow the rules correctly while using them.

[long dong chuck long]

how about in the first round we allow dl and 4th man down, and before the elimination round we vote to see if it stays?

[LouisOliver]

While just because something is in the game doesn't mean it should be allowed, I really think we should err on the side of less rules. The NT dive isn't allowed because it ruins the game by making many plays unusable. I don't think the other things we've talked about getting rid of are really that bad; in fact, I actually enjoy most of them.

Rules like "WR at RB" and "no gratutious onsides kicking" don't really add anything to the game, and not everyone agrees on them. No WR at RB doesn't work for a tournament of this sort because it hurts the guy that picks his team second by making certain teams weaker. Guys that are forced go against SF should be able to put together the strongest Oilers squad they can.

The potential blocking of kicks is a part of Tecmo I really enjoy. It prevents 60 yard field goals from being a boring automatic 3 points. Without the ability to use the 4th man down, overtime becomes completely worthless because a field goal is just too easy for the team that gets the ball. The block % after the animation is also relatively low; this isn't gamebreaking.

Not being able to use the DL is a bit excessive. Just make it clear what a dive is. I'm still trying to wrap my head around Tecmo without the option to control Bob Nelson.

I don't really care so much about no onsides kicking mostly because I don't think kicking onsides everytime is a particularly good strategy (maybe others disagree). I'd just prefer that they be allowed because I don't see any point in not allowing them.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts.

[edgefan]

I don't understand why its so difficult to say "DL can be used, but only in coverage" I use Nelson all the time and just drop him back into coverage, same with Jacob Green on Seattle. It's pretty obvious what a dive is and it'll take one "fuck you man" to stop the diving through the line. Same with onsides kicking, just leave it alone, the consequence outweighs the benefits.

MPC style..We play basically no rules..Even lurching is allowed..Nobody lurches because they know if they miss, they're burned for 80 yards down the field most likely. And if you're playing against Nelson, just use shotty so you cant get lurched.

But, in spirit of a tourney..Everything except lurching should be allowed..Use of DL, Yes..Onside kicking, Yes......4th man, Yes

[Bad Moon Rison]

I don't understand why its so difficult to say "DL can be used, but only in coverage" I use Nelson all the time and just drop him back into coverage, same with Jacob Green on Seattle. It's pretty obvious what a dive is and it'll take one "fuck you man" to stop the diving through the line. Same with onsides kicking, just leave it alone, the consequence outweighs the benefits.

But, in spirit of a tourney..Everything except lurching should be allowed..Use of DL, Yes..Onside kicking, Yes......4th man, Yes

No lurching is a given. I think having a DL drop back into coverage is fine, but I'm always hesitant to allow people to use DL because it can create discrepancies. As someone said, though the Seattle DL might help the team, I've been able to fair just as well by using a DB. But I can definitely see the risk if you use a DL just for coverage for the person that uses him.

I also think that no WR can run the ball from the RB position (i.e.- WR can't run the ball unless it's a reverse). I do think that generally the players were designed to play those positions they were set up for in the game. BUT I see it more as a reason to make the teams that are already good even better. The teams that would benefit the most from running with a WR would be Houston and Philly, teams that are obviously already good. The tourney is designed to be fun, but also to showcase skill. I think it just might be "loading" up these teams too much. You can also make the same argument for using 4th man down on FGs too, I suppose.

I have no problem with onside kicks, I was just saying it because I assumed that's what most people would request.

[Bad Moon Rison]

Can someone bring a digital camera to take pictures? That was something that was sorely lacking from the last tourney.

Great news, we were able to negotiate more time both earlier and later. Right now, we have from 1-8 PM to ourselves. So we have a half hour more at each end than we anticipated. We'll probably designate that first half hour or so for signup and setup.

This will be the discussion thread. It's nice to see some different opinions on how this thing may be played out. I am posting the official information for the tourney at the NY Tourney Official Info Thread so that there is no confusion. I have posted tourney basics and team tiers. If there's any problem with the team tiers, please discuss. I was actually thinking of swapping Buffalo and Philly, but unless there is general agreement on that, I'll keep it the same.

[BO FB Offtackle Left]

you should create a link to the NYCLAN site so people can easily get directions.

[ihoagied]

about the tier system.. giants and eagles should be second tier. they cant hang with the oilers or 49ers passing games

[artoose monk]

the giants should be on tier 8 by themselves. they suck.

also, i can bring a camera, and ill probably bring my camcorder too.

[2steppinlonnieyoung]

I don't see why we would outlaw using DL, onside kick, 4th man down, or WR at RB. All of these strategies have drawbacks as well as benefits(aside from 4th man down) and none of them compromise the fun or fairness of the game(as the NT dive does). Also, I'm assuming we will be able to switch RB1 and RB2 if we want, right?

[Knobbe]

Regardless of however the rules turn out they'll be final decision by whomever is running the tourney (bad moon and Samuri?)

[riddleinthdark]

I think tournament rules should closely mirror the way we normally play tecmo online. I prefer having the 'no 4 DL' rule because it gives the opportunity for the kicker to have a fair shot at attempting a field goal. A tough defense can still block field goals from time to time.

Strategy is important when picking teams so I think participants shouldn't be allowed to use a WR to run the ball. That would lead to most participants relying on teams with the best QB PC and overcompensating with a fast wr to rush the ball.

Each roster has different capabilities and you have to use them effectively.

I could see onside kicks being permitted because it's common for players to mistime a kick and it lands back in their hands. Plus it adds an element of surprise to the game as to what the paricipant is doing on fourth down.

[biw314]

I am against any arbitrary rule but the NT dive. Would it be worth setting up a poll for each of these rules?

-using DL

-4th man blocking kicks

-using wr at rb

-onside kicks

I'd set it up, but don't want to be too presumptuous. I realize that the guys running the tournament have final say.

[Bad Moon Rison]

I am pretty adamant about not using WR to run the ball out of the RB position for reasons stated. It only makes the strong teams stronger. All online leagues play this way, and when I played growing up, this was not allowed either. That and lurching I am set on and I don't think either Samurai or I will change our minds on it.

FYI, You can put players anywhere you want, e.g.- swap RB 1 and 2, etc. You can even put a WR at RB, provided he does not run the ball from that position.

[lightninglarry]

for the rules

i say u can use dl, just have to "go around" if deciding to rush, or just drop back which is fine

4th man down............eh its console, unless its LT Or DT dont think its going to matter, but 2 be safe just say no

onsides, if u do it, ur fault if ur opponent houses it so id allow it

and DEFINITELY NO WR running the ball from the RB Spot

as Chaos said the good teams become great

and i plan on bringing my digital camera for the tourney and other NYC stuff.

[biw314]

I've only bothered switching a wr to rb on tecmo III. Can you give me some examples of teams that would benefit from that?