I'm back to make a VERY SPECIAL ROM, and I need your guidance!

[GameplayLoop]

Heyo! Been a while!

 

So, I haven't edited a TSB ROM in about a decade. More? Less? Who knows. I don't know if there has been evolution in the tools used, so I wanted to ask the VERY LAZY question if someone could point me to the best tools, or provide documents with locations for some specific editing needs:

 

1.) General Team Stats editing (TSB Tool Supreme, I assume)

2.) Small & Large Helmet Editing

3.) Schedule Editing

4.) General Graphics Editing (various screen editors, or HEX info)

 

My plan is to use a cleaned up, relatively basic 32-team ROM. Maybe I'll add some hacks, maybe I won't. The initial emphasis will be on editing team stats and graphics for a 32-team ROM. I’m trying to keep it to more of a short-hand project than a full overhaul ala something like Tecmo Super Coach.

Let’s assume I don’t remember a single thing about any of this stuff, which is only partly true. Opinions? Advice? Lemme have it!

Edited November 26, 2022 by Yak

[SBlueman]

Happy to hear you have the itch again! Here are some of the editors I have been using:

 

1. General Team Stats editing - I use TSB Tool for the team names, abbreviations, playbooks, team and player sim codes, Pro Bowl rosters, season schedule and setting return men. I use a spreadsheet to edit the rosters, save to a .csv file, clean it up in a text file and then paste the rosters into TSB Tool. 

2. Small & Large Helmet Editing & 4. General Graphics Editing - There is no editor that works with the mini and large helmets specifically that works. The best editors seem to be YY-CHR and Tile Layer Pro. 

3. Schedule Editing - As of now I edit it using TSB Tool. For custom schedules like the NCAA release I used the schedule maker over at FootballGuys.com It's a bit limited though (can't make a 17 week season for a 32 team 8 division schedule, they cap it at 2 divisions for 32 teams). 

 

These are the essentials I use when editing:

TSBTool 1.0.0.3

TSB Playbook Editor Beta03

Lunar IPS

Translhextion

TSB Play Editor

YY-CHR

Tecmo Endzone Editor

Tecmo Hack Setter

[GameplayLoop]

22 hours ago, SBlueman said:

Happy to hear you have the itch again! Here are some of the editors I have been using:

 

1. General Team Stats editing - I use TSB Tool for the team names, abbreviations, playbooks, team and player sim codes, Pro Bowl rosters, season schedule and setting return men. I use a spreadsheet to edit the rosters, save to a .csv file, clean it up in a text file and then paste the rosters into TSB Tool. 

2. Small & Large Helmet Editing & 4. General Graphics Editing - There is no editor that works with the mini and large helmets specifically that works. The best editors seem to be YY-CHR and Tile Layer Pro. 

3. Schedule Editing - As of now I edit it using TSB Tool. For custom schedules like the NCAA release I used the schedule maker over at FootballGuys.com It's a bit limited though (can't make a 17 week season for a 32 team 8 division schedule, they cap it at 2 divisions for 32 teams). 

 

These are the essentials I use when editing:

TSBTool 1.0.0.3

TSB Playbook Editor Beta03

Lunar IPS

Translhextion

TSB Play Editor

YY-CHR

Tecmo Endzone Editor

Tecmo Hack Setter

 

Thank you, SBlueman! I really appreciate you taking the time to write this out. I'm glad to know that most of the tools have stayed the same. 

 

Is there a Tecmo Bible of HEX locations laying around, by any chance?

[SBlueman]

This thread by @bruddogis the rabbit hole you are looking to fall into:

 

Here are some quick links for your specific questions:

• TSB ROM Hex Location Index
• Various ROM Hex Locations
• TSB Team Pointer Info

 

If spreadsheets are your thing, this thread is a must read:

 

I also posted up a cheat sheet of various set commands you can try out with TSB Tool:

Edited November 28, 2022 by SBlueman

[GameplayLoop]

I had forgotten how much of a grind it is putting accurate rosters together. Rewarding in its own right, but phew. 

[bruddog]

5 hours ago, Yak said:

I had forgotten how much of a grind it is putting accurate rosters together. Rewarding in its own right, but phew. 

Ya its painful… specifically if you want to have accurate race color…

[GameplayLoop]

On 1/1/2023 at 2:21 PM, bruddog said:

Ya its painful… specifically if you want to have accurate race color…

I'm encouraging myself to embrace the detail. Race color, closest player portrait--I'm going for it. That level of granularity is kind of what I'm trying to do with this ROM. I'm using your roster spreadsheets with the O.G. TSB rosters for reference of the original player attributes, while looking up stats on a few different websites, and drafting edits in TSBToolSupreme to build a first draft of the rosters. I also think there are a few interesting graphical tweaks in the older ROMs I made that I may wind up incorporating. Generally, I've been allowing myself to take my time, which has helped to get through it all.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Yak

[Knobbe]

On 1/7/2023 at 6:18 AM, Yak said:

I'm encouraging myself to embrace the detail. Race color, closest player portrait--I'm going for it. That level of granularity is kind of what I'm trying to do with this ROM. I'm using your roster spreadsheets with the O.G. TSB rosters for reference of the original player attributes, while looking up stats on a few different websites, and drafting edits in TSBToolSupreme to build a first draft of the rosters. I also think there are a few interesting graphical tweaks in the older ROMs I made that I may wind up incorporating. Generally, I've been allowing myself to take my time, which has helped to get through it all.

 

Assume you're already on the way otherwise I can say that mine should be accurate with jersey number.

[GameplayLoop]

On 1/9/2023 at 10:20 AM, Knobbe said:

 

Assume you're already on the way otherwise I can say that mine should be accurate with jersey number.

Nice! But I'm not actually making a contemporary ROM. In a way, it's refreshing to be putting something together that is not beholden to today's rosters.

[Knobbe]

11 minutes ago, Yak said:

Nice! But I'm not actually making a contemporary ROM. In a way, it's refreshing to be putting something together that is not beholden to today's rosters.

 

FAR OUT

 

 

[GameplayLoop]

I thought the idea to download previously released ROMs to pull year-specific rosters was a solid one. I assumed there would be a lot of editing needed, but I thought the base it would apply in both roster personnel and attributes would be of great help. Turns out, not so much.

I applaud anyone who chooses to build rosters from the ground up; it can be laborious, no doubt. But some of the rosters I've downloaded are flat-out terrible.  Stats are so far away from anything resembling original Tecmo Super Bowl that I don't even get it. The rosters usually wind up being more accurate than the attributes. 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Yak

[GameplayLoop]

From a game design perspective, for a ROM based on teams from different years in the NFL--and when considering stats and stats tracking in the game--would you prefer that teams from different years have duplicates of players who may have played on multiple teams, or would you prefer that substitutes are used so that players only appear on a team once?

[bruddog]

When I was trying to do a project like you are describing I tried to avoid duplicates if possible but not excessively so.

 

But the bigger issue is a lot of teams end up very samey even just looking over a decade time span. I would try to narrow the scope if possible.

[GameplayLoop]

On 3/28/2023 at 11:05 PM, bruddog said:

When I was trying to do a project like you are describing I tried to avoid duplicates if possible but not excessively so.

 

But the bigger issue is a lot of teams end up very samey even just looking over a decade time span. I would try to narrow the scope if possible.

Yeah, avoiding duplicates is eventually what I decided on after consulting some other folks related to this project. THANK YOU for extra confirming, @bruddog.

For the ROM I'm making, part of the goal was to pull from teams with unique roster features, so thankfully, there shouldn't be much samey-ness going on once it's all said and done.

 

Thanks again for chiming in, dude!

Edited March 31, 2023 by Yak

[GameplayLoop]

Jeebus Chriminy, I continue roster work. I have several hours a week to work on this, so it's been a slow but thorough burn.

 

After finalizing a system to inform how I would assign player attributes, I first worked through the AFC as a test. I'm using a spreadsheet of stats that I've scraped and sorted of the official NFL player stats from the eras that are in the ROM. I'm also using roster spreadsheets from both my version, and the original TSB ROM to keep the player attribute sets in alignment with the original game. The spreadsheets are niiiiice (again, shoutout to @bruddog and @SBlueman for producing these/pointing me in the right direction here). 

 

For the most part, the player attributes of my ROM are exactly in the world of the original ROM, but with less duplicate stat sets. The original game has a lot of duplicate stat sets, and I've made small adjustments to have more sets of unique player attributes. I've taken some liberties for when the non-typical stat is used, like how C. Okoye has a 75 in RP. Overall, I'm very happy with how it's going, but it's a slow haul!

 

Where I don't recall a specific player's play-style, I've been watching highlight videos on YouTube. Mostly to assign a few unique instances of HP.

 

I'm almost done with the offensive rosters of the AFC & NFC. It's been a grind, but I think the results are making some really unique teams and experiences.

[GameplayLoop]

Does anyone use a specific resource for rating offensive lines?

Mine would be Pro Football Reference for players, and Football Outsiders for basic team line stats.

Edited April 15, 2023 by Yak

[GameplayLoop]

Sweet mother of mercy... I have only CB/FS/SS  &  K/P to go until a first draft of my rosters' attributes are completed. It's definitely been a journey. The rosters are very accurate, but like all WIPs, could benefit from some review. I'm excited to nearly be done with this first draft of rosters.

Edited May 21, 2023 by Yak

[GameplayLoop]

I'm FINISHED.

 

I've produced a final draft of the rosters & roster attributes. I cannot believe that I've been working on these rosters for almost six months. I knew it would be a slow and methodical burn, but sweet golly. This is a big moment.

[GameplayLoop]

Phew!

 

I've started to compile a list of graphics edits, IPS gameplay hacks, etc. that I might want to use in this ROM I'm creating. I began a list of graphics edits by pulling together a series of different ROMs for inspiration--mainly my old Tecmo Super Coach ROMs. I nearly had a panic attack when I couldn't find the ROM that I spent extensive time editing the intro graphics of, including New England Patriots, Tennessee Titans, and the Pittsburgh Steelers. I would have been BUMMED if I lost that GFX ROM. I think these sprite changes are some of my best GFX work.

 

Edited May 30, 2023 by Yak

[Knobbe]

13 hours ago, Yak said:

I nearly had a panic attack when I couldn't find the ROM that I spent extensive time editing the intro graphics of, including Tom Brady, Chris Johnson, and the Pittsburgh Steelers defense. I would have been BUMMED if I lost that GFX ROM. I think these sprite changes are some of my best GFX work.

 

Is this some rom you've never uploaded here before?

[GameplayLoop]

19 minutes ago, Knobbe said:

 

Is this some rom you've never uploaded here before?

Apparently so! I made a series of graphic and gameplay edits to an unreleased 2012-2013 Tecmo Super Coach ROM that I never uploaded here. I think the reason why I never uploaded it, is because there’s a crash bug somewhere that occasionally breaks the game. I think I ducked out of the TSB scene before I was able to resolve the crash issue, and never fully released this BETA 2012-2013 game.

[GameplayLoop]

Hey Everybody. Design Question:

 

The editing I did on my own Tecmo Super Coach ROMs to create 4/3 versions of plays was a total hatchet job. Fun, but a hatchet job.

 

If there doesn't wind up being a sufficient 3-4 / 4-3 formation hack (with Jstout's incredible work being the only public-facing example I've found), can you remind me what is best practice for arranging real-world 4-3 rosters into a 3-4 formation?

Ideally, I think I would like my upcoming ROM to have 4-3 and 3-4 formations to pay tribute to the historical nature of the rosters. I think assigning 3-4 & 4-3 formations to the rosters (including the related player status screens) would be on-brand for a ROM like this. That being said, I'm not interested to incorporate a 4-3 formation if it fundamentally changes the gameplay or stats experience of OG TSB.

 

Thoughts? Experiences? 🤔

Edited June 3, 2023 by Yak

[Beastmode]

If you had to use 3/4 defenses (I hope you can implement 4/3) I would pick a side (right or left) where the lb's are and put a DE there on that far right side. (RDE as ROLD or LDE as LOLB) I think that this makes the most sense but it may not be the best way. 

[bruddog]

Ya when I have to convert 4-3s into a 3-4 format I typically do the following…

 

lde = le

Ldt = nt

rdt = rde

rde = rolb

wlb = rilb

mlb = lilb

slb = lolb

[GameplayLoop]

re = rdt

nt = ldt

le = lde

rolb = rde

rilb = rlb

lilb = mlb

lolb = llb

 

I've been reviewing the documentation on hacks in general, and it's incredible how much I've forgotten. I'm not sure if I have the capacity to reinvest myself into re-learning as much as I would need to apply the optimum hacks for my upcoming ROM.

 

If someone is feeling generous and is willing to assist me implementing some stuff, let me know. 👍

Edited July 1, 2023 by Yak