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Nameless Loser

SD vs. CHI - even matchup?

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While practicing to Hold My Butts, I got into this set. I did get a chance to try it out in the live competition - unfortunately Tomczak was not putting the ball in play, so I couldn't really see the potential of CHI by the player. In defense, Butts dropped 3 wide open stopped Vlasic passes for me in this game - only one he got was on Carrier!! (granted diving play)

Butts got 153, but bear in mind I had tap advantage, got up, and CHI's offense was a dud, not necessarily representative.

 

These two teams actually seem to match up pretty well in terms of my own playstyle, but that doesn't necessarily mean everyone would play them the same way.

 

You guys have any thoughts on this one?

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5 hours ago, BO FB Offtackle Left said:

I always thought CHI was the better overall team because they have so much on defense, but I guess if you can't use that D effectively it becomes much less of an advantage. 

Brings up the related question, do SD's weapons negate the CHI passing-game defensive advantage?

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I used to think it was Chicago but looking at it more closely after joeygats won as SD three times in that match its pretty even with maybe a ls

 

QBs: Slight Edge SD.  Since both passing games are pretty weak and can be jump picked. Passing speed becomes a bit more important and Tolliver can throw those quick strike lasers when the opponent is sitting on run. 

 

RB's: Edge CHI  Sticking Neal at WR is one of the tweaks you can make in this match to give you some speed on the outside 

 

WR's: Edge SD  The CHI WR's are horrid. Anthony Miller is a average option.

 

OL: Even Both are solid OL's

 

DL: Slight Edge CHI  Only Because you can use Dent an his 44 int as a nickel back option

 

LB: Slight Edge SD   Both Lb's aren't of much use in this match but O'neal can be useful in potential XP or FG block attempts

 

DB: Slight Edge CHI This could be even depending on how well you can use DB2 to defend the run 3 sweep since that is where byrd is. But both team have two useable DB's. If Carrier goes in bad it makes it hard to use him to defend the run vs a 63ms back since he is not super quick being a 38 44 defender. 

 

Now factor in that most people are going to take CHI if you call this as p1 and you get the player 1 side advantages (onside kicks, passing)  and it makes this a pretty even matchup. My automated matchup rater gives CHI the slightest edge (1point) 

 

 

 

 

 

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Bruddog, I don't really play Man games so forgive this question if it seems noobish, but why isn't Singletary useful against the run? He's the third or fourth best LB in the game and a big factor in my thinking, and you've dismissed him as essentially useless. 

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Because two of the best runs in the game go right at him.

 

Pro t up the middle run 2 and run 3 sweep.

 

Its kinda silly but the middle lbs are pretty awful positions for defending most of the best runs because of the blocking schemes.

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Posted (edited)
On 6/8/2019 at 12:49 AM, bruddog said:

Because two of the best runs in the game go right at him.

 

Pro t up the middle run 2 and run 3 sweep.

 

Its kinda silly but the middle lbs are pretty awful positions for defending most of the best runs because of the blocking schemes.

 

I guess I'm just used to playing against the computer. I played a couple of preseason games with CHI against SD to see how I could use Singletary, giving SD those two run plays, plus better plays in the other slots. I just called R&S Run 3 every play. If it was a R&S formation, I used Carrier. If it was something else, I used Singletary. He's unblocked up the middle on all the good pass plays I put in. On the Run 2 play, you can time a dive so you tackle Butts before you get blocked. Sometimes I missed even against the computer, so I can see how trying that against another MAN player would be difficult.

Edited by BO FB Offtackle Left

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Ya playing the computer vs playing a human is MASSIVE difference.in tecmo The computer doesn't improvise at all when running the ball. And its passing and playcalling is simplistic. An elite player will kill you in the pass game if you try and run in with Singletary to blitz and you are sitting on run 3. 

 

It's hard to explain without getting super in depth into it. The analysis below is also simplistic. 

 

ROLB is good for defeating a few runs. (The iform run 1 toss down, and run 4 up the middle. Again they are more effective if you cna out-tap) 

 

RILB can be used to stop the run 2 sweep down if you can outtap and are good at avoiding blockers. Alsogood at defeating the pro T sweeps up and down but they go unblocked thru the line so unless the player on offense can outtap the player on defense they won't even bother putting the plays in. 

 

LILB similar but can also be used for bumping the OL on the WR motion run 1 and run 2 plays. However this a a risk reward play. LiLB can also defeat the R&S sweep up top but you have to guess that is coming so this is not great. 

 

LOLB good for diving the up the middle runs for a loss. They have to be a 38 44 lb at minimum but that will be very successful. Good for stopping the single back sweep up as they can avoid the blockers. Good for trying to limit the WR motion sweeps by grappling with the OL immediately. The player then has to reverse field (definitely doable with a fast rb) or they can try to outtap you. 

 

 

So people will use lbs if

 

1. Its by far the fastest player on their team. Somtetimes you may want to man a much slower player in obvious end of game pass situations. 

2. The LB (can be used essentially as a nickel back thats wont take away from the pass coverage. OLB's are better since they pass rush on almost all plays. 

3. They think a run play is coming and its their best option for defeating it. 

 

 

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On 6/8/2019 at 12:49 AM, bruddog said:

Because two of the best runs in the game go right at him.

 

Pro t up the middle run 2 and run 3 sweep.

 

Its kinda silly but the middle lbs are pretty awful positions for defending most of the best runs because of the blocking schemes.

Again with the caveat that all discussion is casual...

 

I would argue that the utility of Singletary is arguable. In the game I played, he actually wasn't ineffective on those gut runs. Butts is right at the edge of where you might choose to go through the middle past the MAN and make hard cut to try and break a big play (common with Jackso). In this one, IIRC, my opponent grappled RG, which IIRC means RB #2 is going to ignore. Then if RB is slow enough and decides to go middle, Singletary can get in on it.

I wasn't super effective on that cut off the block but I'm not sure if it's right or wrong with Butts.

 

In this matchup it also depends on your lineup. Singletary is like 75 HP? With Ronnie Harmon being 25. That implies Singletary can roll Harmon if the MAN decides to install the Off-I Sweep or the FB Power Dive, then it can be a dive or it can be a grapple (probably not a grapple in that case, RG is still in play). Normally your other option is to hit the C and create chaos, not as nice with Butts though. OTOH if you put Derrick Walker or Caravello at RB #2, it's conditions based.

Of course if you don't have to rely on guys catching dump passes (Butts drops 3 passes) you could load it up on Arthur Cox and blow guys out of the hole. But RB #2 does something, I hate leaving Derrick Walker on bench.

Definitely if Singletary got up there in condition you could try and disrupt like people do with Offerdahl on the T Power Dive, just running in and diving.

 

The other thing is on R&S Sweep R, Singletary can take on weak WR #2 (sort of risky because of the cut block) and roll him. Then you just have to let the C go block a drone. Now, I think the pulling guards still likely have aggro on you, but at least you may be able to push the MAN inside, or you could try for that dive play people always hover around and look silly doing except for the surprisingly large % of the time when it works.

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Good points. You are right he is not completely useless because of the HP but it does depend on who the other player puts where.

 

You can put Harmon at TE. THe bottom OLB for CHI has weak HP.

WR2 Derrick Walker (50HP)

RB2 Caravello (44HP)

 

Then singletary's ability to blow up the play is gone. And you still have ok options in pass catching spots. I mean you are basically only going to be throwing to wide open players in this 90% of the time. Especially with Tolliver in. With Vlasic in you're likely heaving to Miller or Butts for an end of half or 3rd/4th and forever bomb. 

 

So I'd still rather have SD's O'neal in his LB spot than Singletary in his for this match. Which brings me back to my slight edge to SD at LB. 

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