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oklahoma

Caps for prosperity

Caps yes or no  

10 members have voted

  1. 1. Cap yes or no

    • Yeah cap it
      8
    • NO lid for me thanks
      2


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The new WTF was created to optimize dynasty leagues. So far so great. 10 seasons in and where we are now was predictable. A few super strong franchises, some have been torn down and rebuilt, others kinda wax an wain in the mid level. All this dependent on multiple factors congruent w/ dynasty set league set up (Rookie draft-rolls/aging/gains/trading). Team salary caps were a concept that was only partially implemented from the beginning with the notion of keeping the gaps between franchises too far apart that it would actually be a detriment to the league and owner satisfaction/retention/and enjoyment. Up until this point the league has done fine as is and would continue to do so, but after brainstorming w/ drake its hard to deny that caps would ultimately make the dynasty system even better/stronger.

 

SKIP THE ABOVE B.S. JUST READ THIS  (How CAPS will impact the league)

  1. Cap would force teams currently stacking up talent to TRIM the EXCESS. (Not talking about kneecapping franchises here, just avoiding overkill. example having starters as backups/ps players)
  2. Would require owners to be more choosy about who to retain, and thus LOWER THE PRICE for some talent making it accessible to disenchanted franchises (like PHX/NO)-leading to #3 & #4
  3. Caps create an off-season ASSET out of nothing for weak franchises, ROOM under Cap.. this allows them to pick up aging studs/one and done types for cheap fostering competition.
  4. Weak franchises are LESS likely to get weaker being desperate for talent and paying more than they can afford (trading likely high picks etc.), and LESS totally dependent on that 1.2 rookie roll..
  5. Supercharged franchises will likely part w/ 1 aging STUD or Mulitple mid/lower level talent>
  • Making more available/affordable for trades
  • INCREASING whats available in FA POOL (weakest team gets 1st dibs here).
  1. AGING STUD RETENTION through gains is a frustrating aspect of dynasty leagues for some, now you'll have to think hard before retaining the old farts and banking on immortal life via gains.
  2. OWNER INVOLVEMENT in off-season activity will be forced to increase for the better. Adding new aspects to the GMing game, an overall underappreciated aspect of dynasty formats imo.
  3. Easier to rebuild/retain owners. Not everyone is really into wheeling and dealing, and currently owners w/ all the excess talent have no reason to de-value it nor should they.. Rebuilding will be easier for those w/o War Machine like prowess.
  4. Overall the league will be LESS dependent on ROLLS/GAINS. Both of which are historically points of contention. This will soften the blow/impact.
  5. NO ADDITIONAL ADMIN WORK NEEDED! The salaries already there, and the admin already is forced to do a once over of all team rosters just prior to flipping the season after all off-season activities have concluded.. After confirming no gaps in rosters or teams w/ over 35 players-a quick peek  at the total salary at the bottom is all that's required! Just like owners are responsible to have all mandatory positions filled and roster cut down to 35 they can assume the responsibility of making sure team is under the salary cap. 

 

Just some other things that came up in discussion:

**Will this require a complete evaluation/overhaul of salaries/positions?> NO. after looking at the positions/salaries they actually seem pretty spot on, only 2 positions that seem little questionable are TE/DL (more specifically high MS/REC TE's and low MS high HP DL) both of which seem more a GRADE issue that translates to salary issue. ART STILL will currently be sacking QB's well into his 80's and Kellen Winslow/Hoby will be catching TD's in their 90's, thats really it, and even those grade/positions are really close enough to roll with..

**Should AGE be a FACTOR in SALARY? > NO. and here's why- in order for the salaries to impact the league the way we want them too the 22/yo 63ms RB has to be same price as the 33y/o or else why trim the fat/force GAINS pros to dump older talent and allow those w/ all the ROOM under Cap to snag CHEAP (less trade value not salary) talent.. IF age lowered salary we'd be in the same boat holding onto and stacking up talent, Also it's more similar to real life trade value of older players.

**What's the downside?> You may have to give up some sentimental players or part w/ recent acquisitions. You may have to be more active in the off-season and invest more time in building your team. Hitting all your gains may put you over the top homie and force a cutback somewhere else..

*After looking over the rosters a complete team w/ solid talent at all key positions I see the initial SOFT CAP in the 72.5K range. Again the purpose isn't to kneecap franchises or go all socialist on WTF... You should be able to have studs everywhere if you earn them etc.. just not on your bench/PS etc.. Some good examples of rosters are GB w/ all Offense just under 70K, SEA w/ young talent everywhere both sides of the ball 71.5K, CHI almost same as SEA level w/ exception of TE/DL factor 64K, MIA very balanced w/ solid talent under 74K, Lowest teams in league (ONLY 2) are in LOW 40K range, while there are 7 teams over 72.5K, and the rest fall right around 65-70K...

Respond here with any constructive feedback and vote just to see if the cap would be welcomed. Can fine tune plan if its a greenlight from league/admin.

 

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My take on it is that it's a great idea for fresh start league - implementing after 11 seasons in is too drastic of a change. How your team is setup right now to switch throws your roster moves out and your trades made too.

For instance if traded for a guy this season that is a 10million player & have to cut him when cap is put in place, sure would be nice to get the 1st round pick traded for him right? Of course you can't though.

 

There's a lot of behind the scenes work involved in database that aren't first thought about too  - brooks would have to spend a lot of time on the DB making it perfectly aligned. Some players hsow up w/ no salary- I've seen It a lot, not sure why they aren't there but nobody cares bc the salary isn't used. That would have to be perfected too.

 

What rookies get for their salary is just a number now associated w/ their best stat line. IT would have to be more in depth to determine as it isn't a perfected formula how the salary number is set. We just glance at it and that's it - the exacts behind it have to be a set formula. Determine age along w/ their numbers, not just for example 63MS RB is 10 mill a year. What if that 63MS RB has 94HP as opposed to 63HP- what if they are 33 years old and going to retire as opposed to 25 & doens't have the retiring chance? Gotta make a younger player have a  higher salary bc they are worth more. It's not setup to take age into account now.

 

For a new league it's a great idea as WTF brand has never used it - switching now is too drastic but if the kinks are worked out it solves a lot of issues some ppl are bringing up. Bottom line is though if your team isn't as strong as others you can build a winner - this would be more of an issue if we had the same 1 team win the championship 5 straight seasons. We've had a different champion every single season so there are lots of teams w/ a chance to win. ( except seasons 1 and 2. That was Brookston who won then & he left the league)

 

Someone wants to take on starting "WTF Salary" league can use this one w/ the salary data we have as a template & the rookies from each draft info is there-  I will be happy to have a team in it & be part of it. Would be great ot see after 10 seasons the pros & cons compared to our first 10 seasons here.

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1- 72.5K Cap not low enough to force cuts/trades of more then 2 teams starting players, mine being one of them the other inherited the team. So all moves made to this point really unaffected. Also this is just spitballing wouldn't be implemented in near future so moves can be calculated.

2- Looks to me like salaries are based of players GRADE not rook lines as seen when OA has bounced between B and A grade RB salary has changed for example, not just based off a rookie line.

3- the player GRADing system changes w/ attributes such as RB HP, QB MS etc look at Elway for example- thus the Salary changes automatically w/ no admin work

4- I know any additional work is just that, more work for a thankless job of being commish, so thanks homie but just looking to see how this would negatively effect the league, and I'd gladly volunteer to be the roster checker after CUTs deadline for you regardless of the caps situation going forward.. I can take that off your plate bro

 

 

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I think there's defin a move towards this in the future - a great idea would be once get it all setup for 2 seasons run it right along w/ this WTF we are in & see how it works out instead of turning this into that.

There might be some hurdles that come up that want to go back to the drawing board & start again, or it could be the missing ingredient that takes online leagues to the next level.

 

When the very first WTF started the initial plan was to go for anywhere from 1 to 3 seasons & then go right back and start fresh so the issues we ran into along the way could be fixed & start fresh w/ a couple of seasons knowledge what needs to be done so it works smooth & everyone enjoyed it. To everyone involved surprise after only a couple of tweaks after the first season we pretty much got it all nailed down & never had to restart. Nothing like WTF had happened before & most ppl opening talked about how it would fail & how it was just too much works w/ rookies coming in & the rolling at end of seasons, rookie rolling etc.. They were almost right as it was a lot of man hours at first bc rolling was done in a chat room w everyone there every season - had to get random numbers and associate them w/ players and then edit players etc. anyway it ended up working out & the amount of time to do it brookston solved by creating the wtfphile site / and used dynastyphile first. SO enough of a trip down memory lane.. since we planned on doing a  season or 2 then starting fresh I think that would be a great idea for the salary league. Try it for a season to run along side w/  this WTF then after that can workout what need to  & have a well oiled / thought out machine that's been tested & works.  I would be extremely happy to be a part of it! (not admin lol)

Quote

 

 

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Kamp - "I think to get something like this, one should flesh out exactly what it would look like before putting out a vote. I haven't read the whole thread, but I would just recruit a team of 3 to 5 and flesh out details before proposing it"

 

Thanks for the feedback!

 

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Posted (edited)

Hi guys! I don't recall a start over plan but it very well may have been in the "what if" scenario. I do remember wanting to get the data of salary after a few seasons to both measure team progressions and cost of positions relative to one another. I see some top teams are nearly doubling the couple small teams, but for the most part the league is pretty close. 

 

It really just comes down to owner retention. If the bottom teams are a revolving door that's frustrating for mods, owners, and franchises. If not, no problem. It almost seems a salary minimum is needed more than a cap at the moment but that could change. I've not looked at historical salaries just this year's snapshot. 

 

Depending on how the cap is implemented, if those dollars can move to bottom teams it would help competitiveness in the league. I measure this on par with the changes in tandems in HSTL to help spread players throughout the draft instead of always getting Waymer and Lott.

 

Anyway, that's my 2 cents, fwiw. Good luck!! #robinhoodtecmo lol

Edited by OL' Dirty Tecmo

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Posted (edited)

I would like to see the salary cap implemented at some point, the biggest concern I have is the changes w the database- not that it can’t be done but we will need someone with the know-how to commit some time to it. I think we have enough data to come up w a reasonable salary cap and if we are able to work out the kinks we can always circle an offseason as a target for the change so owners can prepare accordingly. I think if we can pull this off this would take WTF  to even greater heights - the offseason would be super exciting. It would really force some strategy. 

Edited by chiefsjr83

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Thanks for the feedback, 

I don't see any need to do anything w the database in order to roll out a cap. All that's needed is a established number and that a "cap check" take place when rosters finalized before flipping season. That said Drake had similar notion that anything worth doing is worth doing well and considered manipulating the DB to impose the cap.. that would be a game change and take some serious doing, but again isn't necessary. To further this as well as as well as Kamps points I agree a team should be assembled to work on this and present a clear cut concept and roll out plan for the leagues consideration. 

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I think it could level the playing a field just a bit more without taking the better franchises down that big a notch. Coding the site to ensure everything is done dynamically would be the ideal, though it could as bo said, certainly be done manually as well. It wouldn't be rocket science, get your number below such and such cap by such and such date, otherwise admins will make the cuts for you. Boom, done. Tweaking the pay scales and deciding what a fair cap should be of course would make for good discussion.

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Just a follow up thought here, since there is no real work required to implement a cap as is maybe when plan finalized roll out as is w no changes in database and see how it affects league over few seasons, and if it achieves what said goals are. If it goes well, consider a database manipulation furthering the caps integration. Seeing how increasingly buggy the site is getting every season (as I've experienced before in gtfo) an overhaul of the database is imminent regardless of caps, so best case combine these two and make less fuss over caps and site less buggy making admin work easier again..

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I'll post more in the near future, but as an FYI, I'm just as interested in a contract system as I am a cap.

 

The key would be to limit the one year contracts at minimum salary, as I believe that they plagued CTL.

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I voted. For caps. The more I think about this the more I like it, but I would have no idea how to implement.  I was shocked that I was only the 4th person to vote. WTF WTF?

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Posted (edited)

Kamp-

At the most basic level 2 things are needed for implementation

1- Picking a cap limit   example 72.5K  and spreading the word that you must be under limit by the end of offseason final roster cut deadline

2- Someone (I've volunteered) has to do a quick once over of all the rosters before flipping to new season. (This already happens bc never fails some owners are over 35 players and or missing a punter or something stupid. The team total salary is already calculated on team page.)

 

Taking it to higher levels is a different story and would require much more effort at least up front in brainstorming/database work etc. but not necessary

 I think your idea of forming a team to hash out details for the said cap and detailed approach of how to implement is the next step

 

Only other thing not already mentioned is how to deal w/ teams that are over cap after deadline has occurred. When it comes to having extra players (over 35) the admin make cuts... when a team is missing a punter the admin adds one..

ANSWER: In this scenario I see 2 clear options for addressing teams over cap at deadline

1) Admin will Cut extra players/backups where possible.

2) If option 1 doesn't make enough cap room the Admin will LOWER an attribute of a stud player one notch will greatly impact salary and can be enforced as a penalty.

example knocking a 63ms RB down to 56ms will take 8,000,000 (63ms) down to 5,500,000(56ms) shaving serious $$..  (changing attribute can be done on site no Database work here)

Again the salaries are already assigned by player GRADE and nothing will need to be manipulated in database!  Option #2 will certainly not go over well but I'm sure it will be few and far in-between 

 

Thanks everyone for the awesome feedback... I just now thought of how to address teams over caps by reading the last 2 posts, the feedback keeps the concept development moving forward. 

Edited by oklahoma

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Furthering the above response considering NOT MAKING EXTRA WORK for admins this is how I see it

-The roster check has to be done anyway bc certain owners cant wipe their own asses

-I believe the CAP will force more owner involvement during offseason, Trade/FA/Cuts deadlines will be SOO much more important to owners that the likelihood of owners having too many players or missing players will actually be lower- thus the CAP will ultimately make less work for admins at end of offseason having to deal w/ the same old issues..

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