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davefmurray

Madison, WI - 04/07/18 - Tecmo Madison XIV: In The Ware Tonight

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10 minutes ago, davefmurray said:

 

^ This is not lurching.

 

You can absolutely go after an RB.

 

OK cool. We drunkenly debated this for a while, but then the next morning I suddenly had doubts. "Wait, IS it lurching?"

Thanks for clarification.

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22 minutes ago, Beef Juice said:

I have a question about lurching. I always thought it just meant immediately diving from the snap with a DL. But when playing recently I took a DE up and into the backfield to stop a run up the middle and was called out for lurching. If I run the defender up and into the backfield before diving at the RB is that not kosher either?

 

11 minutes ago, davefmurray said:

 

^ This is not lurching.

 

You can absolutely go after an RB.

 

So basically lurching is when a DL goes unabated to the QB only?

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1 minute ago, TSBglory91 said:

So basically lurching is when a DL goes unabated to the QB only?

 

 

Correct.

 

From: http://tecmomadison.com/rules/

 

6. Lurching: Lurching is prohibited. If you want to rush with a DL, you must either go outside the offensive tackle or bump/grapple someone on the offensive line. Please note that this rule does not apply to LBs.

  • If you want to rush with a DL, when crossing over the line of scrimmage within the restricted circle with a DL and before making a play on the QB, you must first bump or grapple with an opposing player who is not the QB. However, there are no restrictions on DL when the offense is in the shotgun or when crossing over the line of scrimmage outside the restricted circle.

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2 minutes ago, davefmurray said:

 

Correct.

 

From: http://tecmomadison.com/rules/

 

6. Lurching: Lurching is prohibited. If you want to rush with a DL, you must either go outside the offensive tackle or bump/grapple someone on the offensive line. Please note that this rule does not apply to LBs.

  • If you want to rush with a DL, when crossing over the line of scrimmage within the restricted circle with a DL and before making a play on the QB, you must first bump or grapple with an opposing player who is not the QB. However, there are no restrictions on DL when 'making a play on an RB/WR/TE', or when the offense is in the shotgun, or when crossing over the line of scrimmage outside the restricted circle.

 

Might it be helpful to insert the red portion above? There'd be no grey area then.

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2 minutes ago, TSBglory91 said:

 

Might it be helpful to insert the red portion above? There'd be no grey area then.

 

Yeah I agree with that. I think it adds further clarification. Although I think just saying RB would suffice.

Edited by Beef Juice

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10 minutes ago, davefmurray said:

 

Correct.

 

From: http://tecmomadison.com/rules/

 

6. Lurching: Lurching is prohibited. If you want to rush 'the QB' with a DL, you must either go outside the offensive tackle or bump/grapple someone on the offensive line. Please note that this rule does not apply to LBs.

  • If you want to rush with a DL, when crossing over the line of scrimmage within the restricted circle with a DL and before making a play on the QB, you must first bump or grapple with an opposing player who is not the QB. However, there are no restrictions on DL when 'making a play on an RB/WR/TE', or when the offense is in the shotgun, or when crossing over the line of scrimmage outside the restricted circle.

 

Also added above..

Edited by TSBglory91

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7 minutes ago, Beef Juice said:

 

Yeah I agree with that. I think it adds further clarification. Although I think just saying RB would suffice.

 

I included WR and TE to cover any reverses. Not good plays. But if anyone tried them and complained we would have it in black & white in the rulebook.

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Just now, TSBglory91 said:

 

I included WR and TE to cover any reverses. Not good plays. But if anyone tried them and complained we would have it in black & white in the rulebook.

 

You can't lurch a reverse and tackle a WR that way and TEs aren't involved in any runs.

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1 minute ago, Beef Juice said:

 

You can't lurch a reverse and tackle a WR that way and TEs aren't involved in any runs.

 

True. It would suffice to leave it at RB.

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11 hours ago, davefmurray said:

 

^ This is not lurching.

 

You can absolutely go after an RB.

It’s always been clear for QB lurching but I’ve heard different answers for RB lurching. 

 

Example:  run 2 pro form up the middle.  If you use DL to quickly dive tackle the RB, is that a lurch?  I got dinged for it in league play when I first started so always assumed it was illegal and must grapple or bump a lineman first.  Most league vets have told me it’s lurching.

 

Could be a OG tournament vs online league difference but League rules use similar language as Madison rules so I’m a little confused.  

 

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That was my understanding as well. I didn't know you could DL dive pro run 2 up the middle. If you can, that makes the play pretty much un-useable in many matchups. 

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It doesn't nullify the risk much vs run heavy team with bad qbs. If I have called pass can I can feel pretty safe that I can get back in position with a dl or that it will be a risky throw into coverage often. Of you put in the run sweep down i can also lurch that with the dl. 

 

Even more so as i get closer to the goalline where the deep wr pattern is mostly useless. 

 

It also makes for bad grey areas if I lurch on a play action when i thought it was a run. 

 

Doesn't seem like there is a great reason to allow dl run lurching. 

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I agree with Bruddog regarding the grey area on play action. It was always my understanding, and I've noticed it was posted in the forum for multiple tournaments in the past, that you couldn't lurch with a DL period (including run plays) unless it was a shotgun play or you went outside the tackles or you popcorned/bumped/grappled/engaged someone first. It was simple and clear cut.

Edited by TSBglory91

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You could always run away from the potential lurch. If you are calling pass, the opportunity to run towards the tackles very much presents itself.

 

Maybe we should get rid of the LB4 dive and use of LB2/3 vs certain run plays because it is essentially all the same thing. 😁

 

According to what I have been given, you can lurch runs. We actually discussed this last year too. We added the clarification of making a play on the QB for this reason. Let me see if I can get sonofpatbeach to chime in.

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8 hours ago, bruddog said:

It also makes for bad grey areas if I lurch on a play action when i thought it was a run. 

1

 

2 hours ago, TSBglory91 said:

I agree with Bruddog regarding the grey area on play action.

 

 

How is this a grey area? You took a risk and lost. You aren't protected by choice. This is a strat just like anything else.

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20 minutes ago, davefmurray said:

 

 

How is this a grey area? You took a risk and lost. You aren't protected by choice. This is a strat just like anything else.

 

Well there are run plays and pass plays that develop similarly. If you lurch to stop what you thought was a run play but turned out to be a pass and you sack the quarterback then you have broken the rules. I guess in that case the DL is responsible for not touching the QB. In that specific case you couldn't immediately lurch run plays that also had matching play action pass plays.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, TSBglory91 said:

 

Well there are run plays and pass plays that develop similarly. If you lurch to stop what you thought was a run play but turned out to be a pass and you sack the quarterback then you have broken the rules. I guess in that case the DL is responsible for not touching the QB. In that specific case you couldn't immediately lurch run plays that also had matching play action pass plays.

2

 

I understand the play situation and you've stated the exact answer. 👊

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I have been misled. The lurchfathers have spoken.

 

Lurchfathers said:

Lurching rule didn't differentiate b/w pass and run because it applied regardless of whether it was pass or run. As I recall this, we prohibited lurching on run plays because you could select a garden-variety DE and blow up all the runs up the middle, and had we allowed this, it would have further narrowed the number of decent run plays.

 

Even though they said you could never lurch the run, I reserve the right to lurch the sh*t out of Bruddog's Run 2 without penalty.

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I agree. I wasn't even aware of the "QB" specification added last year, as I assume most weren't, since I never saw/heard of people lurching run 2 pro dive or some of the run 4's up the middle. Glad we're back at lurching equilibrium. 

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We should test this assumption since it was on the Tecmo cast, was sent out in an email, on the registration page, and on the rule list at the venue.

 

What other distinction was included in the lurch rule last year?

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