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Yak

NFL 2017-2018 Season Discussion

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11 hours ago, Yak said:


This is such trash.

 

1. 18 Patriots players were on IR for the Super Bowl, with notable depth at defense being chief among them, including Defensive Team Captain, Hightower. Philadelphia had 12 on IR, and most of them were trash, excluding Wentz and (maybe) Sproles.
2. Tom Brady takes better care of himself as a Quarterback than any QB in league history. He'll make 41 seem like 38. That's a 'pubes bet.

3. I LOOOOOOVE that you give the Eagles a line about shoulda-coula-woulda had Wentz been around, but don't do the same for key Patriots players on IR.

4. There is no reason to believe that Nick Foles wasn't the reincarnation of Matt Flynn. Literally, very little difference between the two leading up to the Super Bowl. That you're using hindsight to give Foles credit as a "good QB" is pathetic.

Your analysis is trash, as it has been all year long. That you spend the time to write it all doesn't make it is any less trash.
 

Oh, boy!

 

1.  The numbers of IR or the nature of said players on IR doesn't matter a hill of beans.  Carson Wentz was a superstar quarterback and Tom Brady was the GOAT.  Aside from Hightower, the only noteworthy player I could think of that was on IR was Julian Edelman.  And even before much of the Patriots' defense was ravaged by injuries, they were still trash.  Much of the Eagle players on IR were linemen and guards, including a future HoF player.

 

2.  You neglect to mention Brett Favre, who was also a transcendent talent all the way up to and including his age 40 season, and unlike Brady, never missed a season due to injury.  And he still fell off a cliff in his age 41 season.  All it takes is the same to happen to Brady, or worse, a serious injury to be inflicted upon Brady, and that would be it for him.  This isn't being a biased hater of the Patriots--it's facts.  I may have been wrong about when he's gonna fall off multiple times, but that's because past age 37, those concerns begin to pop up.  And unlike with John Elway, there is absolutely no reason to suspect that Brady would retire at the pinnacle of his career, either (as I recall once hearing him that he'll retire when he sucks).

 

3.  Are you saying that there were Patriot players on IR that were in serious contention for League MVP?  I'm assuming that was the "shoulda-coulda-woulda" that you're referencing.

 

4.  How about 7 touchdown passes with 0 interceptions in a game during the 2013 season--a season where the guy single-handedly turned around what was looking like an abysmal Eagle squad around under Michael Vick?  And that was in spite the fact too that the Eagles that season were a specialized running team.  The only reason to doubt Nick Foles leading up to the Super Bowl was because his team looked very suspect underneath him in all but the Giants and Vikings games.  Especially on the offensive side of the ball.  That was partially the reason why I continuously picked against them in every playoff game (that and because I've always assumed that Brady would pull another hax move to win yet another Super Bowl or something--not accusing them of cheating or anything, but that offense and that one pick play looked like some sort of cheese you would see on All-Madden).

 

And I keep hearing how Belichick's ego was his own undoing.  It's the same sort of thing I keep hearing from the experts who instead of marveling at the game plan of the winning team and the providing feedback to the losing team, they instead bitch about the losing team as if they had no business losing the way they did (the only team that probably warranted this sort of treatment was the Falcons--and possibly the Seahawks as well).

 

What is football ultimately about?  First and foremost, it's about the coaching staff trying to outsmart the other team.  Then it's about the players executing the plays to the best of their abilities.  No matter how flawlessly both teams end up playing, one team is gonna be outsmarted or execute their plays better in the end (and even in, say, the divisional matchup between the Vikings and Saints where the coaching staff didn't make any huge errors from either end, the experts still found something to bitch about against the losing team).  The final thing to consider is luck.  May it be freak plays, or injuries--for better or worse (see Tom Brady).

 

So no matter how well both teams execute their game plan, one team is gonna look stupid by the end of it.  Even in a fairly average scoring game with zero turnovers or sacks from either team, that's still going to end up being a series of mistakes from one team's part just because they were unable to generate any turnovers or sacks at all.  Just imagine how much things could have changed in Super Bowl XXV or XXXIV had the losing teams actually managed to generate a crucial turnover--may it be a strip sack or an interception?  We might be talking about a Buffalo Bills dynasty or the Titans as Super Bowl champions.  We might not even have any acknowledgement of the Greatest Show on Turf to this very day.  Heck, we might be talking about Jeff Fischer as a future HoF coaching genius instead of one of the worst (or at the very least, most overrated) head coaches of all time had the Titans forced just one turnover.

 

Or we might even be talking about the Titans and Bills as Super Bowl champions today had they not missed that one crucial field goal kick apiece.  People don't remember this, but the Rams scored their first touchdown of the game to go up 16-0 following a missed Titans field goal attempt.

 

I'm not talking about "shoulda-coulda-woulda" here.  I'm talking about logistics.  No matter what happens, in a game of tactics and strategy, one team is always going to look stupid and have their judgments second guessed following a loss.  Unless you're the 1972 Miami Dolphins; the only thing that really went wrong for them was that field goal gaffe in the Super Bowl.  But given that they won that game anyways, it's fine to laugh about it.

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On ‎2‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 5:47 PM, BigCat71 said:

Speaking of the beast, has any of the previous dynasties been through as much drama? Seriously after all is said and done, espn ought to do a drama reenacting the years of this run. But in the near term I think a Broadway play can be done where BB a bit like Sinatra sings 'I like doing it my way. But it can't be done always. After all it's really not my team.'

 

As someone who became a Bears fan in the late 20th century I have to admit that with sagas like this I find the sport in the early 21st to be more fascinating.

 

Apparently, the Cowboys never won a Super Bowl without controversy.  Their 90's dynasty had quite a bit drama both on and off the field, and most of it stemmed from the strained relationship between Jerry Jones and Jimmy Johnson.  Not to mention in the early 70's, Tom Landry decided to experiment on a two QB system that was so bloody dysfunctional that it nearly cost them the entire season, and it was only because he ultimately decided to stick with Staubach that they were able to finally get over the hump (that, and Duane Thomas, in spite being a transcendent RB talent, was a complete locker room cancer).

 

The 49ers also had its fair share of drama in the late 80's due to the most notorious and storied of QB controversies between two future GOATs in Joe Montana and Steven Young.  Although said controversy only ever took off because Montana was quite prone to injuries.

 

And Al Davis and the Raiders dynasty was always in of themselves controversial.  Long story short--they are the one type of dynasty that could never again exist in the current NFL landscape.  All based on the way that they played.

 

The Redskins had a little bit of controversy in the 1987 season, which like the 49ersm was also related to the quarterback controversy.  But otherwise they were quiet on that front.  Honestly, only the Packers and Steelers didn't generate that much drama (well, outside of the Emaculate Reception, which, no matter how you look at it, was entirely a product of dumb luck).

 

The drama that mostly follows the Patriots mostly just comes from people that hate that they are able to succeed and dominate for nearly two decades in spite the salary cap being in place.  And every time they remind us how incredible their success has been in the salary cap era, it always reaffirms my notion that the whole reason behind the salary cap was to stamp out dynasties to begin with.  For this reason, we constantly hear stories about a divide between Belichick, Brady and Kraft; we have Deflategate; Bountygate; the locker hating their head coach because he traded one of their best players not named Bledsoe to the Buffalo Bills shortly after Super Bowl XXXVI (and really, those trades were mostly just to open up a great deal more cap space, which was why Belichick didn't particularly like Bledsoe since he had became a giant albatross on the franchise).

 

Really, the drama from those other squads really came from those other squads.  The drama that comes from the Patriots for the most part really only come from the sports drive-bys.  Which is why aside from the Garoppolo trade to the 49ers, I do not believe one word about the chasm between Brady, Belichick and Kraft.  The downfall of the Patriot dynasty if anything will be Brady's retirement.  And the end of the winning culture will probably then following with Belichick's departure, and presumably Kraft's death/retirement (curious to know just how old he is--he looks older than Clint Eastwood).

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1 hour ago, Bolt said:

Speaking of hindsight's 20/20, though, Remember this:

 

K.C beat both y'all;  Week 1, and Week 2.

Yeah, that's wierd to consider this.  The Chiefs seem to have a habit of picking out our Super Bowl contenders/champions in recent years, haven't they?  They did so back in 2014 when they beaten both the Seahawks and Patriots, and they were halfway there in 2015 when they beat the Broncos in the rematch (don't remember the outcome of their game against the Falcons in 2016--if I have to guess, they probably won that one, too).

 

Speaking of which, if we have a Super Bowl between the Chiefs and Falcons next year, who would win?  The franchise whose history is built on choking versus the head coach whose entire legacy is cemented as the bonafide Heimlich patient?

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4 hours ago, Mike Gordan said:

And I keep hearing how Belichick's ego was his own undoing.  It's the same sort of thing I keep hearing from the experts who instead of marveling at the game plan of the winning team and the providing feedback to the losing team, they instead bitch about the losing team as if they had no business losing the way they did (the only team that probably warranted this sort of treatment was the Falcons--and possibly the Seahawks as well).

 

 

Not arguing many of your points, but I don't agree here.  Sure most Pats fans and media are giving Belichick sh*t for the defensive inefficiency and not playing Butler (and rightfully so), but for what it's worth, I have not listened to or read a single interview or article that has done so without also giving Philly their credit.  I mean, I'll say it again, Pederson and Foles were brilliant.  My view on that is already documented in this thread.

 

And there's a huge difference between what happened to Atlanta and Seattle and what happened to New England.  Atlanta's and Seattle's mistakes can be viewed as temporary lapses in judgement - or even fluke plays.  In both cases, the coaches made decisions to pass the ball late in the game with arguably two of the top 5 QBs in the league.  Both teams had recently moved the chains by passing it - Wilson to whoever the hell made that crazy catch down the sideline - and Ryan to Julio and Sanu.  ATL/SEA were having success with those types of plays.  The chances of making an error in those situations (throwing a pick at the goal line or taking a sack/penalty) were slim.  Both teams had their BEST players out there and were playing to WIN the game.

 

What Belichick did was bench arguably one of the best Patriots defenders, who played just under 98% of the regular season snaps and replaced him with a combination of one below average (Rowe) and two other players no one has ever heard of (Bademosi, Richards)... and to this point there has been ZERO explanation for doing so.  Not only did Belichick do it because "he's in charge and he'll make a statement whenever he feels like it" (at least that's what we have to assume)... he stuck with it when it clearly wasn't working... didn't change anything.  That is not putting your team in a situation to win.  Also, the NE vs. ATL/SEA games were back and forth where sometimes the offense made a play and sometimes the defense made a play.  The NE/PHI game was offense, offense, offense and more offense.  The adjustment NEEDED to be made on the defensive side of the ball.  I dunno... I just don't think there's much comparison at all between those games.

 

Last point... at least most Pats fans are willing to admit that Philly outplayed them and executed on a perfect gameplan.  Because they did.  And that's a hell of a lot more than people say about the Patriots when they win.  2001 - refs/tuck rule/taped Rams walkthrough... 2003 - cheated... 2004 - spygate... 2014 - deflategate... 2016 - cheated/refs.  I think if Pats fans are bitching about Belichick (and we have every right to) it's still better than what every other fan base has done when the Pats win.

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I will say though that no one celebrates a Super Bowl win quite like Philly fans.

 

http://www.12up.com/posts/5972374-female-eagles-fans-get-nsfw-tattoos-on-lips-to-honor-nick-foles

 

http://abc7chicago.com/sports/eagles-fan-appears-to-eat-horse-poop-amid-super-bowl-celebration/3042971/

 

WTF are they putting in those cheesesteaks?

 

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On 2/9/2018 at 12:22 AM, Bolt said:

Speaking of hindsight's 20/20, though, Remember this:

 

K.C beat both y'all;  Week 1, and Week 2.

 

On 2/9/2018 at 1:48 AM, Mike Gordan said:

Yeah, that's wierd to consider this.  The Chiefs seem to have a habit of picking out our Super Bowl contenders/champions in recent years, haven't they?  They did so back in 2014 when they beaten both the Seahawks and Patriots, and they were halfway there in 2015 when they beat the Broncos in the rematch (don't remember the outcome of their game against the Falcons in 2016--if I have to guess, they probably won that one, too).

 

Speaking of which, if we have a Super Bowl between the Chiefs and Falcons next year, who would win?  The franchise whose history is built on choking versus the head coach whose entire legacy is cemented as the bonafide Heimlich patient?

Not so fast, there!

 

Le Jets were the last team to beat K.C, before they went on their 4-game Win-streak.  That makes Jets KINGS of the regular season.

And Titans - who beat K.C in the POSTSEASON - KINGS of the postseason.

 

There you have it.  It's a wrap.

 

Hooray, Hoorah.

 

Que sera, sera.

 

C'est la vie, say the old folks

goes to show you never can tell.

 

Edited by Bolt

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On 2/9/2018 at 6:17 AM, Bodom said:

 

 

 

And there's a huge difference between what happened to Atlanta and Seattle and what happened to New England.  Atlanta's and Seattle's mistakes can be viewed as temporary lapses in judgement - or even fluke plays.  In both cases, the coaches made decisions to pass the ball late in the game with arguably two of the top 5 QBs in the league.  Both teams had recently moved the chains by passing it - Wilson to whoever the hell made that crazy catch down the sideline - and Ryan to Julio and Sanu.  ATL/SEA were having success with those types of plays.  The chances of making an error in those situations (throwing a pick at the goal line or taking a sack/penalty) were slim.  Both teams had their BEST players out there and were playing to WIN the game.

 

 

That circus catch from the Seattle game you mention has been forgotten in time. Same thing with Julio Jones' clutch catch before the Falcons screwed it all up. That's the funny thing about losing a SB - those amazing plays are entirely forgotten.

 

Makes you wonder if Mark Ingram Sr's tackle busting clutch play in the Bills/Giants SB would've been remembered if Norwood makes that field goal at the end. 

 

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20 hours ago, _DEBERG said:

 

That circus catch from the Seattle game you mention has been forgotten in time. Same thing with Julio Jones' clutch catch before the Falcons screwed it all up. That's the funny thing about losing a SB - those amazing plays are entirely forgotten.

 

 

I suppose this is partially  true to an extent.  I don't remember many great plays from players on losing teams in non-Patriots Super Bowls. 

 

But in Patriots Super Bowls I do.  I'll never forget Julio's catch on the sideline, or the circus catch by Kearse.  Or Terrell Owens beasting out during the first Eagles/Pats Super Bowl (the one where the good guys won).  Think he had a broken leg, too.  Or Jake Delhomme tossing bombs when the Pats beat the Panthers... I could go on.  I don't think I'll ever forget those plays.

 

But come to think of it, I still remember quite a few great plays made by players on losing teams.  Larry Fitzgerald's 2 TDs to put AZ on top of PIT late in SB XLIII.  Devin Hester's KO return to open the SB against the Colts.  Don Beebe's hustle play denying Leon Lett of a TD.   

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21 hours ago, Bodom said:

 

I suppose this is partially  true to an extent.  I don't remember many great plays from players on losing teams in non-Patriots Super Bowls. 

 

But in Patriots Super Bowls I do.  I'll never forget Julio's catch on the sideline, or the circus catch by Kearse.  Or Terrell Owens beasting out during the first Eagles/Pats Super Bowl (the one where the good guys won).  Think he had a broken leg, too.  Or Jake Delhomme tossing bombs when the Pats beat the Panthers... I could go on.  I don't think I'll ever forget those plays.

 

But come to think of it, I still remember quite a few great plays made by players on losing teams.  Larry Fitzgerald's 2 TDs to put AZ on top of PIT late in SB XLIII.  Devin Hester's KO return to open the SB against the Colts.  Don Beebe's hustle play denying Leon Lett of a TD.   

 

Delhomme played amazing in that SB. Of all the Patriots SB wins, that one is my favorite. It was a back and forth game and very entertaining from start to finish. Carolina was a crazy team that year cause they pulled out so many clutch wins that were by 7 points or less. I thought for sure once that game was tied, it would go to OT and the Panthers would pull another clutch win out like they had done so many times that year.

 

TO was phenomenal too in the Eagles SB you mentioned. I re-watched that game a few times last year and Andy Reid's clock management in the 4th quarter is still a sight to behold. Pats go up by 10 and he spent all that time fiddling, letting the clock run. 

 

 

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