manYo Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 (edited) I see some people are updating current roms, I got some ideas for the hawks, a team i know well.... take it fwiw. QBRussell Wilson: 25ms, 50ps, 56pcTJack: 13ms, 44ps, 31pc RBLynch: 56rs, 50ms, 88hp, 38recColeman: 44rs, 31ms, 56hp, 38recTurbin: 38ms, 63hp, 38recMichael: 50rs, 44ms, 44hp, 19rec WRHarvin: 56ms, 63recBaldwin: 56rs, 38ms, 63recRice: 31ms, 56recKearse: 38ms, 44rec TEMiller: 31 ms, 69hp, 56recWillson: 38ms, 44hp, 44rec OLUnger: 50hpCarpenter: 44hpSweezy: 50hp, 44msBowie: 44hpOkung: 63 hp, 50ms DLAvril: 44rp, 56hpMebane: 38rp, 69hpBennett: 56rs, 50rp, 63hp LBWright: 44rp, 56hp, 44intSmith: 38rp, 44hp, 25intWagner: 50rp, 63hp, 38intIrvin: 50rp, 56hp, 31int DBSherm: 56rs, 50rp, 56hp, 69intMaxwell: 38rp, 44hp, 56intEarl: 56rp, 50hp, 63intKam: 50rp, 75hp, 50int KHausch: 75ka, 38akb PRyan: 56 Edited April 20, 2014 by manYo DFM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keirre21 Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Too many high RP guys on defense you have 7 guys at 50+. Almost twice as much as any original rom team, which would make it an all timer of a defense. Last year's defense wasn't even in the top 25 of all time in ppg allowed. Irvin,avril and bennet aren't 50 RP players. Irvin is a role player that is made better by those around him 25/38/44 drone type of line for him Cam should come in at 69 HP similar to atwater and 38/44 Spot on with Thomas, as I posted in another thread I think Sherman is a 38/50/63 guy Offense 63 REC too high for balwin. 38 MS/ 56 REC, could stretch to 44 MS Sidney Rice has done nothing so he's a 31/44 guy Wilson at TE is OK but still looks a bit high at 38 MS 44 REC I agree that Michael has more talent than Turbin but until he produces on the field he's a 38 MS guy too with standard RS. T. Jax is 31/31 all the way. Take it from a Vikings fan tommy2teeth 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manYo Posted April 19, 2014 Author Share Posted April 19, 2014 (edited) Too many high RP guys on defense you have 7 guys at 50+. Almost twice as much as any original rom team, which would make it an all timer of a defense. Last year's defense wasn't even in the top 25 of all time in ppg allowed. Irvin,avril and bennet aren't 50 RP players. Irvin is a role player that is made better by those around him 25/38/44 drone type of line for him Cam should come in at 69 HP similar to atwater and 38/44 Spot on with Thomas, as I posted in another thread I think Sherman is a 38/50/63 guy Offense 63 REC too high for balwin. 38 MS/ 56 REC, could stretch to 44 MS Sidney Rice has done nothing so he's a 31/44 guy Wilson at TE is OK but still looks a bit high at 38 MS 44 REC I agree that Michael has more talent than Turbin but until he produces on the field he's a 38 MS guy too with standard RS. T. Jax is 31/31 all the way. Take it from a Vikings fan ok, I made some changes... first off, it was an all-timey sort of defense according to several metrics... ppg doesn't compare well across eras... but beside the point... avril I bumped rp from 50 to 44 rp bennett has one of if not the fastest get off of any DL in game, imo... absolute beast last year... but changed his rp from 56 to 50, and gave him 56rs... is giving rs bad for DL? dunno. I do believe he should be 50 rp tho... not like he'll do much with it given 63 hp. Irvin now.... mmmm, dude is a monstrous athlete, made several explosive plays as a LB last year, def not drone like... highly inconsistent true, so I'll claim him as a pet player here, fine.... irvin will become a monster LB one of these next few years, my prediction... he's def not a role player made better by those around him, more like a loose cannon sometimes hindering those around him with ill discipline.... HOWEVER, one of my clinching thoughts for Irvin being 50 rp at LB4 is to represent the explosive nature of the Seahawks run defense, which was absolutely the core of their defense last year, enabling them to get into 3rd and longs and Nascar packages and put the LOB in a position to feast..... if anything, that's what Irvin is representing at the 4 spot, so I did not change him. I dropped sherm's RP to 50, he really isn't a 56, isn't even all that fast..... but the 56rs is key, representing his length and short-field abilities, I believe. Bam Bam is Ronnie Lott man, he aint no Atwater... his coverage abilities, on small receivers even, took a big leap last year (injuries in 2012 kinda hampered him tho)... a testament to his physical skills as well as his mental preperation, which I feel is represented well in my line for him. baldwin... I bumped his ms down to 38, but boosted his rs to represent his near-elite get off skills... as for the rec, i kept it 63, if I recall correctly there's a stat out there representing how seldom he drops the ball, near the top if not tops, i thought 63 would be a good balance for a pedestrian receiver like him anyway. dropped rice to 31ms, 50rec... the recent re-signing may have clouded my judgement there, and he's coming off injury... but might bump his rec to 56 to represent his amazing catching radius.... he should be in there when the tecmo hawks need the hail mary. when i think luke willson, i think ethan horton (he's the 44/44, right?) except perhaps the bump to 38 ms because he hasn't totally proven himself yet.... otherwise really is spot on I believe. That and it gives an interesting choice between him and miller, similar to real life. been a lot of talk here in the PNW this offseason about Christine Michael, including Pete Carroll and Sherm Smith the RB coach, and the media and fans as well... and he's a 3rd string RB! something is brewing there, and man he is fun to watch run the ball, and his sparq numbers are crazy.... but i dropped his rs a notch, however i want to keep this diamond in the rough and kept the rest the same. I like T Jax actually, but I did drop his pass stats one notch each... if only because It makes me take russell OOB more! Edited April 19, 2014 by manYo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manYo Posted April 19, 2014 Author Share Posted April 19, 2014 damnit, i better see some ROMs with Kam at Lott-esque levels ( maybe not 56 RP) def nothing less than 75 hp and 50 int or I start filling this thread with highlight reels that will make you lose sleep hearing Bam Bams footsteps in the hallway! and his ball and coverage skills are much better than the average fan might think, which is why I'm putting this out there.... and if you dont believe me, ask The Man himself! http://blog.thenewstribune.com/seahawks/2014/01/25/ronnie-lott-says-kam-chancellor-heading-toward-kenny-easleys-level/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buck Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 I saw russell wilson's ratings and stopped reading...50 PC??? What do you have Brady and Manning at, 31? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manYo Posted April 19, 2014 Author Share Posted April 19, 2014 I saw russell wilson's ratings and stopped reading...50 PC??? What do you have Brady and Manning at, 31? yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manYo Posted April 19, 2014 Author Share Posted April 19, 2014 ok, I caved and gave Russell 56pc... he doesn't throw interceptions, but at the same time, I would have a hard time giving him a pc number which allows him to get a ton of garbage catches, cuz he doesn't do that either..... to play with russell, you should have to play like russell: conservative, with the occasional redline JJ attempt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonickmontana Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Last year's defense wasn't even in the top 25 of all time in ppg allowed. It's always interesting when someone offers an uncontextualized argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgboud2 Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 True about the 25 all time ppg since rules favor offense so much now. A better measure would be ppg compared to the league average. tommy2teeth 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keirre21 Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 (edited) It's always interesting when someone offers an uncontextualized argument. I stand corrected gonick. Bgboud. This is what you were talking about http://www.footballperspective.com/the-best-scoring-defenses-in-nfl-history/ With adjusted metrics, according to this study they would be the 9th best defense in NFL history. Again this is statistical analysis which isn't always indicative of how great a defense plays. For example, I'd take the Charles Haley, Deion Sanders, Darren Woodson, Russell Maryland Leon Lett comboys led 1995 defense over 75% of the defenses on the list Edited April 19, 2014 by keirre21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruddog Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 http://www.footballperspective.com/the-best-scoring-defenses-in-nfl-history/ Adjusted for league average and strength of schedule they finish 9th all timehttp://www.footballperspective.com/putting-the-2013-seahawks-pass-defense-in-perspective/ Taking a couple different ways to look at their pass defense they finish 4th and 5th all time. Pro-football-focuses take on the whole lineup-https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/21/projected-lineups-seattle-seahawks/ FBG madden ratings which try and use tons of sources to come up with their ratingshttp://www.fbgratings.com/members/viewbyrate.php?team=Seahawks manYo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buck Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 well, the '13 Seattle defense held the "besth offense in madden hithstory" to 8 points in the SB; and in doing so made Denver look like chump change. this must mean that they are at least one-of-the best defenses ever. I'll go ahead and say that they are in the top 5 all time. "buck" formula. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keirre21 Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 well, the '13 Seattle defense held the "besth offense in madden hithstory" to 8 points in the SB; and in doing so made Denver look like chump change. this must mean that they are at least one-of-the best defenses ever. I'll go ahead and say that they are in the top 5 all time. "buck" formula. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sea/2013.htm The main question I have about this defense in the context of an all-time defense is, outside of the superbowl when did they really play a good offense. Seriously, we can say the saints were good. They destroyed them in the 1st game and and only gave up 15 in the second. But STL, SF, ARZ really didn't have what would be considered good offensive units. Watching that SF game in the NFC championship game, I didn't feel like they were smothering them. Honestly, until Mike Upati went down SF could move the well on Seattle. The number look good but you could argue out of the 19 games they played maybe played a good offense 4 times (that's for those who want to argue that SF was good. And I say 4 b/c SF did not have Crabtree game 1). Then when making a 2014 rom again do they really need 7 guys at 50 RP to make them the best defense? I think 3 players at 50 RP and a couple others at 44 RP and 38 RS would suffice in making them the best defensive team on the rom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buck Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 (edited) http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sea/2013.htm The main question I have about this defense in the context of an all-time defense is, outside of the superbowl when did they really play a good offense. Seriously, we can say the saints were good. They destroyed them in the 1st game and and only gave up 15 in the second. But STL, SF, ARZ really didn't have what would be considered good offensive units. Watching that SF game in the NFC championship game, I didn't feel like they were smothering them. Honestly, until Mike Upati went down SF could move the well on Seattle. The number look good but you could argue out of the 19 games they played maybe played a good offense 4 times (that's for those who want to argue that SF was good. And I say 4 b/c SF did not have Crabtree game 1). Then when making a 2014 rom again do they really need 7 guys at 50 RP to make them the best defense? I think 3 players at 50 RP and a couple others at 44 RP and 38 RS would suffice in making them the best defensive team on the rom it's not possible that every NFL team is an offensive juggernaut. if every NFL team was lighting it up and considered a bad ass offense, then we would have to surmise that, instead, all of the defenses suck (bad defenses, not good offenses). how many times does a defense have to prove itself? every single 19 nfl games? 10 games? 4 games? how about just winning the super bowl and stomping the best offense in the history of the non-profit universe? how many offensive powerhouses did 85 CHI stop? who were all of the "offensive juggernauts" of the late 70's that PIT steel curtain stopped? who did 90's dallas stop...bills? back to ratings...I still haven't gotten past Russell's 56 PC. Edited April 20, 2014 by buck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keirre21 Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 What do you suggest Wilson's rating should be. There is setiment among coaches around the league that Wilson is an average QB on a great team. I don't believe that but for what he is asked to do, I wouldn't put him over 50 PC, are you suggesting that he gets like 69 PC or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buck Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 (edited) hmm..."Wilson is average".... 63% comp, 101 rating, 26 td 9 int, in the very defense-strong NFC West...of course super bowl champ.....with all those garbage WR he had. whoever says that's "Average" is a fuckhead. I have been watching this guy since Wisc. The first time I saw him light up that Nebraska defense, I could tell he was a real-deal football player. I am the kind of guy who is "oldschool" and appreciates people who win by any means necessary. I do not believe that all quarterbacks need to be 7 feet tall and be able to throw the ball a quarter-mile to be an EXCELLENT quarterback. I think that Seattle would not have won as many games or even won the super bowl with ANY other QB....sorry. I really don't. He made plays like crazy. I am basing ratings off of original 1991 rom, not some compressed-to-hell, even-teams ratings/theories that exist in some people's minds. 69 to 75 PC, depending on PS and MS. and he would be one of maybe 4 with that high of a PC. Edited April 20, 2014 by buck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruddog Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 56 pc coupled with some decent ms would be as far as i go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keirre21 Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 By Buck's logic Manning needs to be 94 PC buck 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruddog Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Actually 31 because he only put up 7 pts in the superbowl. buck 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manYo Posted April 20, 2014 Author Share Posted April 20, 2014 I'm a Seahawk fan of course, and there is not a single QB in the NFL that I would trade Russell Wilson for...... I also think he'll go down as one of the greatest QBs of all time in the end.... and my prediction is he will enter that conversation more forcefully in the latter half of his career when he plays on some bad Seahawks teams and has to throw 30+ times a game and answers his critics by lighting up the scoreboard and stats sheets in the way they want, because he'll have to do it...... oh, and winning 6 super bowls along the way, but ahem, anyway...... last season I would have had Russell at 19/50/50 coming into the season..... and this season, he's earned the pc notch to 56..... my view is to make him earn the next notch by doing it again next season. basically just a difference of philosophy between me and buck, I think...... not sure exactly, but if I had to dole out pc to every quarterback, I wouldn't have a Montana on my ROM..... perhaps Brees with 69pc, MAYBE 75.... Manning and Rodgers would have to get something up in that territory as well. I'd have to think about what Nick Foles would earn, but he def shouldn't be in that company despite his awesome stats (27td, 2int). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgboud2 Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 I don't know why you only have Wilson at only 19ms without knowing the context of all the other team ratings.31-38ms with 50ps56pc seems pretty good. Maybe 63pc for lack of an ace receiver. I still can't see making him QB Browns...then again I can't see why they made QB browns 75pc when looking at the 1990 season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manYo Posted April 20, 2014 Author Share Posted April 20, 2014 (edited) Vick: 38ms (or is he getting old now? not sure)Cam Newton: 31msRG3: 25ms (more if he overcomes those injuries next season)Kaep: 38msAlex Smith: 19msPryor: 25msLuck: 19ms (maybe 25) that's all I know of that would be above 13ms. Johnny Manziel: 31ms? I don't think Russell is all that fast... he just runs and scrambles a lot, with a flair for the dramatic. Which might be like saying all Cris Carter does is catch TDs, so I could see 25ms. Edited April 20, 2014 by manYo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgboud2 Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 He was third in rushing yards by QBs and his avg per rush was better than Cam, Kap, and RG3.Pryor stands out with over 7 yards per rush while the other guys are between 5-6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manYo Posted April 20, 2014 Author Share Posted April 20, 2014 He was third in rushing yards by QBs and his avg per rush was better than Cam, Kap, and RG3. Pryor stands out with over 7 yards per rush while the other guys are between 5-6. I am shocked Kap's avg rush was lower than Russell's, I must admit. But again, my thing is stats aren't the major factor in tecmo atts, altho they contribute..... or else, again, Foles would have some unworthy atts. I just thought Russell was slower than these guys based on eye test..... so okay, I looked up their 40 yd dash times, and Russell, Cam and Kaepernick are all in the same 4.5ish area (not sure if these were combine numbers or not tho and thus comparable), while RG3 was 4.41. I am actually shocked by the fact Kaepernick clocked that time, he seems like a fast motherfucker when he gets out in the open.... altho maybe that's because he's got the Seahawks defense (and their 7 50rp guys) chasing after him whenever I watch him. So in conclusion... I'll give Russell 25ms. Not sure about the other guys, but the fact Russ likes to slide so much, get OOB all the time would be the tiebreaker that gives them 31 or 38 ms as opposed to Russ. I still think Kaep deserves 38ms, personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgboud2 Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 (edited) I've never been an eye test or 40 timer when I did ratings...more or less stats for the season with a career and/or team consideration. Height/weight might play a part for HP on that type of rom. If he can run for 500 something yards just the same as the others I'd rate him as fast as the others.Really Pryor is the guy who stands out as being faster with his > 7 yards a carry. Vick had that too but it counts for a lot less because he got benched. Anyway, I've put in my few cents. Edited April 20, 2014 by bgboud2 manYo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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