Is this just me (?)

[Talent]

Okay, when I was a kid growing up NES TSB was the game I always played, and then later on I changed to Genesis TSB, and then a couple years ago I found the SNES version of TSB (which I had never played before that).

And each game seems to be different in gameplay. The Genesis and NES versions are almost identical, but the Super Nintendo seems to be much more of a challenge. I can take almost any RB in NES/Genesis and rush for 400 yards in a game on average. But in SNES Tecmo, 150 rushing is a very good game. It's more bound to realism and the difficulty makes it more challenging. This is why I opt for the Super Nintendo version, and I'm really surprised that the SNES community isn't as big as it should be considering it's a better game visually and in the gameplay than the other two versions, plus it has better online gameplay.

The one opinion I keep hearing is that the NES players are better (Bo, Montana, etc), but I think it's more fun taking a relative unknown and having an awesome season, like Johnny Bailey, or Rod Bernstein.

Do you guys feel the same way, or why do you play the SNES version instead of the other two? (Or why don't you!)

[sois]

genesis is faster. I like it better. SNES feels like the players are in mud. or maybe its just cause i only use the bengals.

[Talent]

I guess that the NES/Genesis versions are good for playing other people, but against the computer it's always a massacre, even with no blitzing etc. But yea the Bengals are pretty slow on there (even though I think both versions are the same stats?).

[Bad Moon Rison]

SNES. Gameplay is virtually the same. It's slightly slower, but better since you have less ridiculous runs with the QB in MAN vs. MAN games. I find the control tighter and better and the ability to reverse cycle through receivers helps too. The graphics are clearer than the constant flicker of the NES and the breadth of cinemas make all other versions look laughable. For me, there is just a mystic aura around the SNES version that doesn't exist for the NES.

[Slig]

The SNES version is still good, but I find it more bland. The stats are varied like they are in the NES version where you have insane players like Bo and Okoye and then total bullshit like John Stephens...everybody in the SNES version plays between a Herschel Walker and an Emmitt Smith. I also find defense far easier in the SNES version. I prefer playing to 44-24 or 70-0 games than 21-14 or 28-7 every single game.

[chymiy]

The NES version of TSB has both the best variety and best art design for its cutscenes of any version of TSB. That shit they put in the SNES version's cinemas to take advantage of the system's Mode 7 capabilities lack any real style.

That's one of the only things that I like alot better about TSB vs. TSB 2 and 3. As the series went on, they put less and less cutscenes in the game. Took away some of what makes Tecmo unique.

Even the use of color bothers me in SNES TSB. (For some reason, I do like that college hack of SNES TSB that was done. The bright colors and high-pitched voices fit better with the college atmosphere, I guess.)

[COA Elway]

The SNES is my favorite of course. It's more challenging! I just proved that, when I took the coaching challenge with the Pats on the NES. I went to the SuperBowl on the first attempt. The SNES Pats have still not made it for me. The NES's speed is just too fast. Too many long runs and receptions. On the SNES my longest run was 64 yds. 70+ is too common on the NES. 80+ yd receptions are also too common. I've been trying to find a perfect balance for the nes version. When I make my roms, I slow down the RB's and WR's. I also make QB's less accurate. That seems to help the NES version, but I still find myself playing the SNES more. I can't get into the NES. It's boring destroying the computer every game.

[Bad Moon Rison]

The NES version of TSB has both the best variety and best art design for its cutscenes of any version of TSB. That shit they put in the SNES version's cinemas to take advantage of the system's Mode 7 capabilities lack any real style.

Lack style? I can use the phrase 'lack style' to mean anything I want and not have to be descriptive. Are you trying to say Mode 7 lacks style? If I did, I would say the constant flickering of the NES 'lacks style' or the mediocre quality of the music 'lacks style.' I like the NES, but there is so much that can be (and was) improved upon.

There are only two cinemas in the SNES that use Mode 7, both of which are decent, but I can see how the zoom in one can be choppy. It is far better than the NES cinema where the guy is falling away catching the ball even though, in actuality, he is standing perfectly still. The NES possibly uses 3 cinemas throughout the field of play. That doesn't sound like variety. If anything the NES uses cinemas at weird times. Even if you discredit the Mode 7 cinemas on the SNES, there are still more that are far superior than the NES. The cinema where both the receiver and the defender jump up to catch the ball is my fav (especially when the ball is intercepted), since it is so rare.

[chymiy]

Lack style? I can use the phrase 'lack style' to mean anything I want and not have to be descriptive. Are you trying to say Mode 7 lacks style? If I did, I would say the constant flickering of the NES 'lacks style' or the mediocre quality of the music 'lacks style.' I like the NES, but there is so much that can be (and was) improved upon.

Defining "lacks style":

Let's disregard the obvious technical differences of the two systems. (TSB for the NES exceeded expectations about what was possible with a sports game on the system. The graphics in the SNES version barely do the system justice. Just look at the huge difference graphically between TSB 1 and TSB 3. And TSB 3, a game I love, doesn't really push the system either.)

So, yes, the SNES version has more color and no flicker (and flicker has nothing to do with style.... I think you know you were reaching with that one). There are several 3rd-party football games that came out for the PlayStation that look better than TSB from a technical perspective. The PS is waaaaayyy more powerful of a system. But more detail does not equal "better".

Mode 7, in and of itself, does not lack style. It is not the tool, but the artist who uses the tool that determines the quality of the artwork. You don't even have to look past the launch lineup for the SNES to find a game that uses Mode 7 with style. F-Zero took advantage of Mode 7 to great effect (and Pilotwings certainly used it competently). Aside from having great gameplay, the game just oozed style. TSB's use of Mode 7 was pathetic. If you don't see a difference, I don't know what to tell you. Alot of people don't see the difference in quality between the average Saturday morning cartoon and a Disney movie.

Some artists can do more with less available to them. I think the artwork of the cinema scenes in the NES version is better than that in the SNES versions. I'm pretty sure if you counted, that there are also more of them.

Personally, I like the composition of the music in NES TSB. The composer used the tools available to him and created something that was not only not annoying, but actually pretty decent. Considering the platform, I have no complaints.

The NES possibly uses 3 cinemas throughout the field of play. That doesn't sound like variety.

This statement has no factual basis.

Even if you discredit the Mode 7 cinemas on the SNES, there are still more that are far superior than the NES. The cinema where both the receiver and the defender jump up to catch the ball is my fav (especially when the ball is intercepted), since it is so rare.

That's my favorite cinema scene on the NES version also.

[Bad Moon Rison]

Defining "lacks style":

Let's disregard the obvious technical differences of the two systems. (TSB for the NES exceeded expectations about what was possible with a sports game on the system. The graphics in the SNES version barely do the system justice. Just look at the huge difference graphically between TSB 1 and TSB 3. And TSB 3, a game I love, doesn't really push the system either.)

So, yes, the SNES version has more color and no flicker (and flicker has nothing to do with style.... I think you know you were reaching with that one). There are several 3rd-party football games that came out for the PlayStation that look better than TSB from a technical perspective. The PS is waaaaayyy more powerful of a system. But more detail does not equal "better".

Mode 7, in and of itself, does not lack style. It is not the tool, but the artist who uses the tool that determines the quality of the artwork. You don't even have to look past the launch lineup for the SNES to find a game that uses Mode 7 with style. F-Zero took advantage of Mode 7 to great effect (and Pilotwings certainly used it competently). Aside from having great gameplay, the game just oozed style. TSB's use of Mode 7 was pathetic. If you don't see a difference, I don't know what to tell you. Alot of people don't see the difference in quality between the average Saturday morning cartoon and a Disney movie.

Some artists can do more with less available to them. I think the artwork of the cinema scenes in the NES version is better than that in the SNES versions. I'm pretty sure if you counted, that there are also more of them.

Personally, I like the composition of the music in NES TSB. The composer used the tools available to him and created something that was not only not annoying, but actually pretty decent. Considering the platform, I have no complaints.

The NES possibly uses 3 cinemas throughout the field of play. That doesn't sound like variety.

This statement has no factual basis.

Even if you discredit the Mode 7 cinemas on the SNES, there are still more that are far superior than the NES. The cinema where both the receiver and the defender jump up to catch the ball is my fav (especially when the ball is intercepted), since it is so rare.

That's my favorite cinema scene on the NES version also.

How many times will you hear from other Tecmoers, many on this board, yearn for the original style of TSB for the NES? That is what turns many off to the PSX version. I believe SNES 1 fulfilled exactly what it was set out to do: improve the world's greatest football game. We already know the backlash from the TSB community about 'altering' the 'purity' of the original with later versions. Thus, you may be correct that they did not push the envelope with the system's capabilities, but there is a need to preserve the original. This is why games like the GTA 3 series and Dynasty Warriors receive tweaks rather than complete makeovers. An added note, the NES version pushed the envelope in the graphics department, which unfortunately led to flickering problems. I don't think that is a fault of the TSB programmers, but merely exposes one of the many ways that the NES was a crap system.

To avoid getting into a discussion on aesthetics, I'll only mention one thing briefly: that a tool plays an important role in the 'artwork.' Though, I think it is harder and harder every day for me to recognize computer programming as an art form anymore.

As for cinemas having no factual basis, I am sure I can just go and count. I am sure that the number is greater in the SNES version than the NES version. But that is besides the point. Someone asked me why I may enjoy the SNES version better, and I accordingly shared my experience.

[chymiy]

You're entitled to your opinion. I don't think the SNES version is as good as the NES version. I would rather play, and have chosen to play, the NES version over the SNES version. More often, I play TSB 3. It's my favorite version. I have no idea what the developers were hoping to accomplish with the PSX version of the game. Whatever it was, if they were successful, I didn't like it. The only redeemable part of that game for me was the customization and the injury system.

there is a need to preserve the original. This is why games like the GTA 3 series and Dynasty Warriors receive tweaks rather than complete makeovers.

Games receive tweaks usually because it's cheaper and developers eventually run into the limitations of the hardware. GTA3 is SIGNIFICANTLY different from GTA1 and 2. Maybe not conceptually, but there's a reason GTA3 sold millions of copies. Dynasty Warriors continues Koei's streak of making an innovative game and then rehashing it endlesssly with sequels.

Nobody would complain about Tecmo Super Bowl with better graphics. TSB on SNES was a lazy effort. TSB 2 actually felt like a legitimate sequel.

a tool plays an important role in the 'artwork.' Though, I think it is harder and harder every day for me to recognize computer programming as an art form anymore.

I wasn't comparing programming to art. I was comparing art to art. Actual drawings. Graphics. Real artists drew those graphics (or assembled them with pixels).

As for cinemas having no factual basis, I am sure I can just go and count. I am sure that the number is greater in the SNES version than the NES version.

I contend that there are more cinemas in the NES version. I might be wrong (I have no way of finding out right now. Not a bad idea, though, to have an archive of screenshots of all of the cinema scenes from each version of TSB). What I said had no factual basis was your assertion that "The NES possibly uses 3 cinemas throughout the field of play". This statement has no basis in reality.

Count these postings as answering Talent's question about why I don't play SNES TSB.

[Bleak5170]

I compared season stats with the SNES and Genesis versions a while back, and i concluded that the SNES version is way more offensive. Both the CPU and myself racked up serious yardage in the SNES one. There's a thread about it somewhere in this forum.