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Buck's TSB 09-10 ROM (new plays!) EOS UL Feb 27


buck

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Enjoy ;) -> feel free to give me any feedback/suggestions/bugs.

Thanks for the new update! ;)

I know I've asked you seven times already but is there any way I can get you to make a version of your rom with ALL of your hacks EXCEPT the new plays?! I don't care if you call it the "fat free frozen yogurt" version! (aka more plain than "vanilla") And before anyone blasts me, I know your new plays are awesome and I love them, I just want the old playbooks for my league with my friends.

*If anyone besides Buck can help me with this I'd really appreciate it. ;)

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Has anybody else experienced this problem(?):

Don't know that it's correctable - or even desirable by anybody else to have corrected - but noticed that every time there's an injury in pro bowl mode, the substitution screen only allows substitutions from the team area of the injured player's original team (eg., Frank Gore got injured, & then i could only substitute players from the 9ers' team area)... then, the default pro bowl team play-selections get all switched-up, too; &, once a play is selected, the name of the player w/ the ball becomes something like "CUUXRB". It usually devolves from there to the ROM completely 'crashing-out' (requiring reset).

Could this be to do w/ the emulator i'm using (nestopia) - or is it perhaps a "system-wide" 'bug'? - i wonder...

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that is a side effect of the preseason injury hack. it only happens against COM pro bowl.

I played a MAN game of pro bowl the other night...fun as hell.

Has anybody else experienced this problem(?):

Don't know that it's correctable - or even desirable by anybody else to have corrected - but noticed that every time there's an injury in pro bowl mode, the substitution screen only allows substitutions from the team area of the injured player's original team (eg., Frank Gore got injured, & then i could only substitute players from the 9ers' team area)... then, the default pro bowl team play-selections get all switched-up, too; &, once a play is selected, the name of the player w/ the ball becomes something like "CUUXRB". It usually devolves from there to the ROM completely 'crashing-out' (requiring reset).

Could this be to do w/ the emulator i'm using (nestopia) - or is it perhaps a "system-wide" 'bug'? - i wonder...

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I love the updated rom but there are alot of inconsistent ratings. And let me start by saying I know that TSB is a game largely based on speed but again there are some real misses. For example, at RB Shonn Greene is faster than Darren Sproles. In fact Darren Sproles is about as fast as LT, which simply is not even close. Also at LB..it displeases me to see the a rookie (again) in Clay matthews is much better than Chad Greenway (int aside).The ratings seem to be over reactions to playoff runs or awards. I can come up with 45-50 legitimate discrepencies in ratings that need to be fixed. I don't mean nitpicks either (like Farve should have 6 speed instead of 13) but real "misses".

Just thought I'd put my two cents in.

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That's cool. You're definitely entitled to your opinion and thank you for the feedback.

If you like, I can try to justify the examples you gave.

Greene vs Sproles

Greene is a member of the best rushing attack of '09...when Jones wasn't healthy - he replaced him fine.

In the playoffs, Green went 135, TD, 128, TD, 2 receiving TDs in two games.

The Jets have a relatively shitty passing attack on this rom.

Sproles is a member of one of the weakest running attacks of '09. 3 TDs, longest rush of 21 yds, and 3.7 ypc. He only averaged 7 yds per punt return. In the playoffs, Sproles had 3 carries for 33 yards.

The Chargers have a relatively good passing attack on this rom.

So, stats (including playoffs) factor in, as does overall team strength. 40 speed don't mean much, here. Seriously, I think Darren Sproles is awesome (I watched him every year in college) and he might be "faster" than Greene (I believe that Sproles is surely faster than LT2)...but the previously mentioned factors outweigh this. In my opinion.

Matthews vs Greenway

This is a tough one because I love both of these guys and both were on great defensive squads. Greenway indeed did lead Vikings in tackles (but only with 79, which isn't that dominating) he had some key INTs and pass defenses (which have been accounted for). But otherwise, the vikings (offensively and defensively) are loaded with talent. Vikings have J Allen (best DL in the rom).

Matthews led the Packers with 10 sacks (was a pro bowl selection) and recovered 4 fumbles (1 TD).

I can see why you would want Greenway to be bumped a notch in overall speed...but he didn't have 10 sacks or make the pro bowl.

8)

I agree that Favre should be 6 MS. I thought he was...

8O

For sure, my ratings are over-reactions to awards and stats and playoff performance and team strengths and my perception of the overall rom balance.

:wink:

Regarding the 45-50 "misses" you reference - Like Steve Albini said way back in the 80's -it went something like "if you don't like the music you're hearing on the radio, start your own band."

:o

I love the updated rom but there are alot of inconsistent ratings. And let me start by saying I know that TSB is a game largely based on speed but again there are some real misses. For example, at RB Shonn Greene is faster than Darren Sproles. In fact Darren Sproles is about as fast as LT, which simply is not even close. Also at LB..it displeases me to see the a rookie (again) in Clay matthews is much better than Chad Greenway (int aside).The ratings seem to be over reactions to playoff runs or awards. I can come up with 45-50 legitimate discrepencies in ratings that need to be fixed. I don't mean nitpicks either (like Farve should have 6 speed instead of 13) but real "misses".

Just thought I'd put my two cents in.

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That's cool. You're definitely entitled to your opinion and thank you for the feedback. If you like, I can try to justify the examples you gave. The Jets have a relatively shitty passing attack on this rom. The Chargers have a relatively good passing attack on this rom. So, stats (including playoffs) factor in, as does overall team strength. the vikings (offensively and defensively) are loaded with talent. Vikings have J Allen (best DL in the rom). I can see why you would want Greenway to be bumped a notch in overall speed...but he didn't have 10 sacks or make the pro bowl. For sure, my ratings are over-reactions to awards and stats and playoff performance and team strengths and my perception of the overall rom balance.

keirre21, I'd suggest downloading a bunch of the roms and then testing them out for yourself. Everyone has their own way of doing things. Or, do what a lot of us do around here is read, read, read some more, and then try to make your own! Rating players is the hardest part I think.

Buck, I love how you responded to criticism. It's refreshing on a forum to see that common courtesy. And, I am always interested in seeing how people rate their players and teams in their roms. I wish everyone would explain their ratings when they post a rom. Nice work. :wink:

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I agree with the start your own band thing. I know alot of work goes into tweaking ratings. I do comprehensive ratings for NCAA 2010 for PS3 (and just about every year) and let me tell you its a bear. But I simply don't know how to do it for TPC or else I would.

But as far as the justification thing, you contradicted your self, as you can't give greene credit for being part of a great rushing attack then turn around and penalize Greenway for being part of a stellar unit. A case could be made that all the vikings LBs (ray esdwards included) very vastly underrated on the rom.

And back to green...you justified making better but not that was not the issue. You didn't address the speed disparity which was the real issue.

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Here: Speed in real life DOES NOT ALWAYS EQUAL Speed in TSB....for me. to make a guy effective in TSB - you give them speed...to make them shitty and ineffective (like sproles) you make them slow.

And, I'm not "penalizing" Greenway for being on a good defense - he's just not rated as good as Matthews - and you don't like that, but I do like it like that.

So, what the fuck should a linebacker that had 79 tackles be rated (31,38,44,50,50,44 isn't good enough)??? What should Darren Sproles be, with his whopping 300 yds, 3 TDs, and 3.7 ypc? You tell me, dick.

Go play NCAA 2010.

I agree with the start your own band thing. I know alot of work goes into tweaking ratings. I do comprehensive ratings for NCAA 2010 for PS3 (and just about every year) and let me tell you its a bear. But I simply don't know how to do it for TPC or else I would.

But as far as the justification thing, you contradicted your self, as you can't give greene credit for being part of a great rushing attack then turn around and penalize Greenway for being part of a stellar unit. A case could be made that all the vikings LBs (ray esdwards included) very vastly underrated on the rom.

And back to green...you justified making better but not that was not the issue. You didn't address the speed disparity which was the real issue.

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the guy is telling me that sproles should be better than shonn greene...bullshit. Shonn Greene is a bad-ass. Anyways, go ahead an give me a 40 time, Sproles won't beat Greene by much.

the guy is telling me that a LB that had 79 tackles should be rated faster than a rookie LB that had 10 sacks and 4 fumble recoveries (and was selected to the pro bowl)...Oh kay.

this guy is telling me he rates EA NCAA 2010...whoopdy doo...I know there are endless attributes to tweak on that game - but that doesn't translate directly to TSB.

And if it isn't totally obvious yet (the whole point of my initial response): I don't rate players in a vacuum. There are only so many variables to tweak in TSB.

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I don't know. I had Shonne on my fantasy team, so I kept a close track on him particularly this year. His 144 yrd game was on a day that no one expected that he was going to play, and had little expectation for him to work--the week that Leon Washington also went out, so Oakland's D blew up on Sanchez, which opened windows for Greene to make an impact.

As far as game averages for avg. yards, he's averaged just as many 3.0+ games as he has 5.0+ games during the year on 8 carries avg. a game during the majority, which isn't really too frequent. With his major games / yds during the regular season coming in garbage games against IND who gave-up during the game, and Cincinnati, who cared less about winning that game with the Jets than the Redskins, at that point.

Yeah, Shonne had a pretty good post-season, but I've yet to be convinced that he has what it takes to be a full-time back yet. I do like his downward motion rushing style, though.

Now, this all being said, Darren Sproles is FAST AS SHIT. Faster than Shonne Green? At a 40+ lbs weight differential, I would hope so. Shonne is a good-sized RB at 227 lbs. He has some girth to him. He breaks tackles. Darren Sproles' only value at 5'6 185 lbs. is that he's never actually touched by the Defense. Otherwise he should be smashed instantly.

I should also note that, other than his quickness, Darren Sproles is one of the more overrated players in the league, in my opinion. One of his claims to fame is that he's so small, people say it's a positive that he can't be seen behind his OL. In a game of asserting dominance, I have a hard time seeing how this trait holds up. He's got special attraction status, but that's about it.

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ok. i don't give a crap about 40 times when I'm thinking about rating darren sproles 2009 season!!!

He had a waste of a season, unfortunately - (I was hoping he would be used more this season, but the LT2 ass-kissing continues) - so I rated him accordingly. Who gives a shit if he's the fastest man on earth when he averages 3.7 ypc and averages 7 yards a punt return. In TSB - if you make him fast - you make him a bad-ass...Sproles was not a bad ass this year and so I didn't rate him "TSB-fast". How can I make myself more clear?

Artistic liberty with Greene - sorry - I think that since the Jets had the best rushing attack, when you play with the Jets on my rom, you can use either Jones or Greene, you always have a RB to get you 100 yds a game....because in TSB, that's all you can do! You can make the WRs have higher HP (did that a little) you can bump the OL HP (did that, too)...but in the end, Maximum Speed is KING (with 69RP).

RE: Shonn Greene, let's wait and see (I do know that he ran for 1800 yds and 20 tds his last year at Iowa...not too shitty of a college season. I also know this, he backed up T Jones and in the playoffs he was tearing shit up...I watched the games - he made T Jones look like an old man.)

I don't have much else to say, except I tried to explain my ratings and give some small insight into how I see rating a TSB rom (with 69RP for offense - like the original), and the reply I got from the guy seemed like he didn't read what I wrote or is trying to troll me.

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Woah..look at "little bucky" getting mad. Oh how funny...you took it the wrong way,but I don't care either way . And tweaks to NCAA 2010 are much more involved than TPC..I actually do more than just react to a few games to make a judgement.

Like I said in my first post..I know speed is everything in TSB. So don't take it personal "bucky". Shonne green had a few stellar games but all I wanted to get across were minor discrepancies. If you don't like the sproles analogy go compare greene to Fred Jackson if it makes you happy. It still doesn't add up. There just seems to be some bias or over reaction(key phrase)..when you rated (some..not all..but some) players. Another example..could you justify why leonard weaver has 94 HP?

And speed isn't everything to me..you don't see me screaming that DHB should be faster than louis murphy (though he is)... but it would stand to reason if you say that you will "accept feedback" then you wouldn't get your panties in a bunch when someone gives you real feedback.

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"little bucky" getting mad?

panties in bunch?

bucky?

Nice.

Do you not understand what I've been saying or are you trying to fuck with me? I've tried to explain why I rated the shit like I did. You sound like you still don't understand.

Fred Jackson: 1052 rush 2TD, 370 rec 2TD; on a 6-10 team = 50 MS on my rom.

Leonard Weaver: ALL-PRO fullback on a decent team = 94 HP on my rom.

Go play NCAA 2010 and get off my back.

I'm out.

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The thing is, no one will ever agree 100% with someone else's ratings. Obviously if you're giving Jamarcus Russell a higher PC than Peyton Manning then you're an idiot, but the RS/MS debate can go on forever depending upon how you view the game.

After taking the time to dabble with "rom editing" I have a new respect for the guys who create these roms (free of charge) for us all to use. I started on my own project a few months ago, but it's just too time consuming.

Do I think Sproles should have a higher MS than Shonne Greene...absolutely. However, that's what TSB Tool and the Roster spreadsheet are for. After all the work these guys do editing the game, adding in hacks and creating new graphics.... it's not too much to just open up tool and change a few players to your liking.

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Do I think Sproles should have a higher MS than Shonne Greene...absolutely.

I don't get it. Greene tore shit apart in the playoffs until he got hurt against IND. Sproles was not used at all this year. The Jets ran the ball like mad this year. The Chargers couldn't run at all. All that adds up to Greene > Sproles for 2009 ROM, in my book. Call it hype, call it prediction for next year, call Greene "Johnny Bailey", but I thought it would make for a cool Jets team.

Honestly, I could see dropping Greene to 50 MS.

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Do I think Sproles should have a higher MS than Shonne Greene...absolutely.

I don't get it. Greene tore shit apart in the playoffs until he got hurt against IND. Sproles was not used at all this year. The Jets ran the ball like mad this year. The Chargers couldn't run at all. All that adds up to Greene > Sproles for 2009 ROM, in my book. Call it hype, call it prediction for next year, call Greene "Johnny Bailey", but I thought it would make for a cool Jets team.

Honestly, I could see dropping Greene to 50 MS.

Well, my thinking on speed is very different in that I value RS slightly higher than MS by keeping RP low. So maybe we are comparing apples to oranges here...with your rom ratings, I can see how Greene would be higher. He proved his worth towards the end of the season and into the playoffs and I think he's gonna breakout next year.

A good example of my ratings are the Saints RBs. Off the top of my head...

Thomas 50/38/50

Bush 38/38/63

While Reggie has that breakaway speed, Thomas will get more ypc and be the better every down back. Also, the way I rate OL and DL has the DL busting in a lot more (especially on the bad teams) and that also affects the run game. I would give the Jets a better OL which would also result in a higher ypc.

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Yeah, with 69 RP (what I based this rom's ratings on, like original TSB) vs altered RP is a whole other world. We really can't compare. I think mr. troll doesn't understand that...hence the confusion.

My next rom will have altered RP. I think it will be more realistic (I've experimented with it before) - but it will have a totally different feel than original TSB.

Do I think Sproles should have a higher MS than Shonne Greene...absolutely.

I don't get it. Greene tore shit apart in the playoffs until he got hurt against IND. Sproles was not used at all this year. The Jets ran the ball like mad this year. The Chargers couldn't run at all. All that adds up to Greene > Sproles for 2009 ROM, in my book. Call it hype, call it prediction for next year, call Greene "Johnny Bailey", but I thought it would make for a cool Jets team.

Honestly, I could see dropping Greene to 50 MS.

Well, my thinking on speed is very different in that I value RS slightly higher than MS by keeping RP low. So maybe we are comparing apples to oranges here...with your rom ratings, I can see how Greene would be higher. He proved his worth towards the end of the season and into the playoffs and I think he's gonna breakout next year.

A good example of my ratings are the Saints RBs. Off the top of my head...

Thomas 50/38/50

Bush 38/38/63

While Reggie has that breakaway speed, Thomas will get more ypc and be the better every down back. Also, the way I rate OL and DL has the DL busting in a lot more (especially on the bad teams) and that also affects the run game. I would give the Jets a better OL which would also result in a higher ypc.

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I don't think 38 rp is enough to really make a difference in the example based on tests I did awhile back.

The HP hack makes a big difference in rating rbs which is why I like using it. You can give the smallish but fast rbs really low hp and it definitely limits their effectiveness.

Finally one of the other problems with the Chargers was that their run blocking sucked.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ] mobile.png

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I don't think 38 rp is enough to really make a difference in the example based on tests I did awhile back.

The HP hack makes a big difference in rating rbs which is why I like using it. You can give the smallish but fast rbs really low hp and it definitely limits their effectiveness.

Finally one of the other problems with the Chargers was that their run blocking sucked.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ] mobile.png

As in the 38 is still too quick? I'm not sure - I have been using these ratings for the past couple years and it seems to play out exactly how I want it. The RS and MS numbers I gave weren't specific, but the 38 for RP seems to be about right.

I agree with the HP and OL. The HP of the RB and OL play a huge role in the running game also.

EDIT: bruddog - i was just looking at your rsvsrpvsms spreadsheet and the 50/38/50 would go a longer distance for 2.5 "real" not tecmo seconds. that's a good amount of time. the 38/38/63 guy has a much better chance of being caught in the backfield for a loss.

Again, ratings are all subject to each individuals perception. I try and make each and every attribute for every position tie in together.

My main point here anyways was that a lot of work goes into creating a rom - ratings are something that can be adjusted by the individuals who download it.

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If you make Chargers OL shitty because they didn't run the ball well, then their passing attack sucks on TSB because Rivers will have DL up his ass all the time. And that would be a problem - because their strength is the passing attack.

In the context of an "original TSB-style" ROM (like this one), the only thing you can do is make Sproles and Tomlinson slow ...or completely redesign TSB plays and blocking (which some other guys around here have been doing recently) - and then you don't have an "original TSB-style" ROM anymore.

bruddog - 38 RP feels a lot different to me. maybe a fraction of a second doesn't look like much in an excel graph, but in practice it's like driving a boat; 69RP is like a motorcycle.

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I disagree that if you make the OL shitty the passing attack suffers. Elite qB to WR combos in original tecmo don't really need to the line to hold up long.

Actually even on the original rom the OL matters little even if it's complete shit and even then if you have great players its hardly noticeable.

So I do agree you have to make Sproles and Tomlinson slow.

The 38rp definitely depends on what run play you call. On pitches the RB is pretty much at full speed when he gets the ball at 38rp. On the other plays you definitely notice it a little more.

Bodom On my spreadsheet ,seconds are "tecmo" seconds and not real seconds.

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I converted :wink:

post-6125-13413725825823_thumb.png

The funny thing is, I'm sure we are talking about 3 different styles of play. buck is man vs. com, bruddog man vs. man, and i like to see how the com plays out against itself or coach mode. the OL sucking doesn't affect the pass game as much with TSC because the QB gets the ball out quick. It wouldn't really affect man vs man either.

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Great job on the rom buck, one of the best out there. I love the new plays!!!! Tecmo is actually a challenge now, lol. I used to know how to edit the D reactions but I forgot, its been a while since I was on here. I had to make a new name, forgot the old one. I only played a few preseason games, and they were all close. I will have to start a season. My very first game I played I got kinda frustrated. I was the Titans against the Pats, and I lost 34-17 in preseason! I could not stop the run with the new HP for the COM. Maroney had 334 yards. Is there any way to lower the HP for the COM a little, every time I grab a guy to bring him down 99% of the time he throws me and off they go, lol. Other than that I like everything else. Good job.

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