Grappling in TB

[TecmoTurd]

In the original TB, the grappling functionality is different than the other versions.  It's very rare that an offensive player is able to out grapple a defensive player, even if you're using the highest HP guy vs. a lower HP guy.  Here's why (courtesy of jstout):

 

Man vs CPU:

Man = HP + IF > 4 taps then add 32 to HP

CPU = HP IF > 4 taps then add 32 HP

Whoever’s HP is bigger wins the grapple.  If tied, Man wins if Man has even taps and CPU wins if Man has odd taps

 

It should be noted that the CPU always gets 0 taps.  Therefore, man wins the grapple more often because it's always the user's base HP + 32 vs. the CPU's base HP + 0

So man 32 vs. CPU 56 would end up man 64 vs. CPU 56, man wins!

 

Man vs Man:

Offensive Man = HP

Defensive Man = HP + IF > 4 taps then add 32 HP

Whoever’s HP is bigger wins the grapple.  If tied, Defensive Man wins if Defense has even taps and Offensive Man wins if Defense has odd taps

 

In this scenario, it's always offense HP vs defense HP + 32 (provided the defender taps, of course)

so offense 56 vs. defense 32 would end up offense 56 vs. defense 64, defender wins!

The only real way an 64 offense can beat a defense is if the defender is 32 or less,  (would end up being 64 vs 64 at that point, then the tie breaker goes into effect)

 

Discussion points

It appears what decides Man vs CPU or Man vs Man code is backwards as it makes more sense if both Man players get the IF taps > 4 test while the CPU wouldn’t need the check since its always 0 presses.

 

I have code to fix this (courtesy of jstout)...it basically swaps these two checks so that man vs. man always gets the tap check.  This would make guys like Mack more of a bruiser, and guys like Bo virtually unbeatable in man vs. man grappling.

 

There are two items to discuss here:

1.) Should it be fixed? It drastically changes the game for high HP players, makes them more impactful, but could overpower them

2.) Should I contact jstout or maybe someone else can find the value for defender press check (bruddog?) and see if we can add more HP than 32 to the defender to make them more powerful or find the 32 for the offense and lower that to make them less powerful, or both? Hopefully they are separate values and not combined for both offense and defense.  I'll contact brud and see what his thoughts are on this as well...

Edited January 4, 2014 by TecmoTurd

[TecmoTurd]

Here are the set patches for this:

 

Fixed, swaps the tap checks: SET(0x147BF, 0xFO), SET(0x14FFB, 0xFO) 

 

Unfixed, sets it to the original ROM code where HP is "broken": SET(0x147BF, 0xDO), SET(0x14FFB, 0xDO)

[TecmoTurd]

Could also fix it with the fix + ratings adjustments. Max out the defensive hp at a certain level and adjust all offensive players on that scale. That way no one would be unbeatable ALL the time.

[TecmoTurd]

Or, another solution if we can get a hack written is to make it so that it works like it does in TSB...

 

Would really love to hear some feedback from the three TB fans here besides me

 

Either way, the rater is coming along nicely.  When the rosters solidify, making a ROM should be easy as pie.

[Prof_Werwolf]

Sounds interesting.  Can't wait to try it out.

[buck]

Or, another solution if we can get a hack written is to make it so that it works like it does in TSB...

 

Would really love to hear some feedback from the three TB fans here besides me

 

Either way, the rater is coming along nicely.  When the rosters solidify, making a ROM should be easy as pie.

 

I like the idea of the "TSB" style HP hack - at least the way I do it (no "random").

 

Essentially, HP is "quantized" and each HP notch (or range of notches in my case) adds an extra button press.  This way there is still a chance that a fast tapper can outtap a HP-freak; and there is no random variable.  

 

I believe in my Street ROM I have HP quantized to only 4 levels...and I had to rate HP accordingly - keeping conditions in mind.

[TecmoTurd]

Precisely. Well see what we get. Hoping brud can help out.