TSB vs. Tecmo Super Bowl III

[TecSpectre]

So... I know this isn't the forum for TSB3... but this is a thread directed at all of the TSB players who don't play 3.

 

Why not?

 

That's more or less the intent of this thread. I'm curious what the reasons are, from the TSB players, why not make the upgrade.

 

Free Agency, Trading. All of the stats actually do what they're supposed to. HP actually matters more than thumb speed.

 

More teams. More plays. More defensive formations. More defensive players.

 

Audibles.

 

More plays available as a whole.

 

To me, it's the bigger, better version of the game.

 

So why do most people stick with the original?

[philleyOphish]

There is just something special about TSB for the NES. It's could be a childhood connection. The little quirks in the game are what make it great to me. If I wanted to play something with great graphics or plays, there is always madden. But TSB will always have a special place in my heart. I also think that TSB2 is better than TSB3.

TSB > TSB2 > TSB3.

[TecSpectre]

I have admittedly never played TSB2.

 

I've played TB and TSB on nes. TB on gameboy. TSB1 on snes and genesis and TSB3 on snes and genesis.

 

To me, TSB3 on snes is the best of the game.

 

I don't know that there is any significant increase in graphics through any of these versions. Nothing significant like you'd get with a modern madden game.

 

Though, to me, I'd rather play Mutant League Football over any madden game.

 

Is it just nostalgia? Or is there something else?

[DFM]

More plays. More defensive formations. 

 

Audibles.

 

The game is just slow. It drags like Madden does.

 

The things listed above contribute to the massive slowdown. Even when watching your NFTGL videos the games take forever and alot of that is from play calling. 

[DFM]

Also, TSB2 was a turd.

[GameplayLoop]

TSB 3 is like the equivalent of the Sega CD. The Sega CD system had every opportunity to be better than the Genesis from a technical standpoint. But the end reality was that even with all the bells and whistles of being a system capable of greater technical feats than its earlier 16-bit predecessor, the Sega CD was still just giant piece of sh*t.

[SirTed]

Interesting topic!

Despite having "better" graphics (being 16bit) my biggest problem with TSB III is that it's really freaking ugly. I hate the sprites they used. Not to mention, as davefmurray did, it's REALLY slow. Just in general a really ugly game. Now, I wonder what TSB III would be like if it looked and played like TSB (one) and had the create a player (with improvement, my favorite feature of the game) from TSB III.

A sort of associated question I have is (and apologies if this is old news, I'm new) 

 

With all the love and support that is CONSTANTLY thrown at Tecmo Super Bowl, why in the hell has it been so hard for Tecmo to recreate that game? They've tried twice recently (Throwback and Kickoff), not to mention all of the sequels mentioned above. How could they possibly screw it up this many times? It's amazing, really.

[DFM]

It's a classic case of over thinking and under performing. Tecmo Bowl Throwback was farmed out to a different design house and they ruined the franchise in my opinion. Anyone not of our generation and who do not play already through emulation will now know Tecmo Bowl as a really crappy port of some "old game." It's sad really.

[~Tailback King~]

The game is just slow. It drags like Madden does.

 

The things listen above contribute to the massive slowdown. Even when watching your NFTGL videos the games take forever and alot of that is from play calling. 

 

Couldn't agree more.

[TecSpectre]

I've never had that issue with 3 being slower. The game clocks move differently, i'll agree with that.

 

I've always looked at the 3 minute quarter in TSB3 being the equivalent of the 5 minute quarters in TSB.

 

Either way... a man vs man game in TSB3 averages around 28 minutes, while a 3 minute computer game tends to last around 18 minutes. These numbers will fluctuate based on the amount of scoring in the game, but I'd imagine that's true in the original as well.

 

What is the general time it takes to play a tsb game?

[TecSpectre]

I do agree about the sprites. I think the original TSB sprites look crisper.

[CheapCatch]

I've wondered this same thing, TecSpectre. Over time I've had a chance to gather views on it. Most of what I hear is basically that TSB is the game people grew up w/ and that they have never played TSB III.

Also, I consider that HP actually matters alone to be worth the jump from TSB to TSB III, but interestingly, I've heard some hardcore TSB players express their dislike for that. I respect the opinion, but I don't agree w/ it. In my estimation HP actually does something in TSB III, while in TSB it really isn't much of a factor (thumb speed is).

The complaints about how TSB III looks are odd, since the original TSB isn't that "pretty" itself. I find the sprites to be upgraded. One major detraction in TSB III: QB Eagles is Randall Cunningham, the former QB Browns is Bernie Kosar, and QB Bills is Jim Kelly

It is definitely slower (in terms of how long it takes to play a game, and the game play itself), as TSB feels like a track meet sprint- the games actually transpire too quickly for my taste. With TSB III I actually feel I can settle into a game, and it doesn't bother me that the games take longer (with the exception that people here have mentioned....when your opponent takes forever checking players, switching plays, etc.). As a whole, though, the various defenses and audibles don't really slow the game down significantly.

-I disagree that TSB III is not an upgrade. I think in many ways it is (starting w HP mattering- that is tops in my opinion).

To name a few more: being able to down the ball in the EZ, being able to call a timeout on the field, 2 pt conversion, you can't punt the ball a million miles/combined with you can call for a fair catch, the addition of rain and snow games, the various "moves" built into the game, in particular spinning, but also the bullrush and drag are pretty cool. A lot of people don't mind this it seems but in TSB it gets tiring having a defender constantly jump up and either block or INT passes- seems to happen way too frequently (i do realize the coding behind this, and I think it is faulty, and I also realize that more proficient players know how to limit this....but I think the tweak to the coding for TSB III is an upgrade), the fact that a QB can throw off DLmen and LBs consistenty in TSB but not in TSB III.  I'll also add that you can't blow up plays as easily on TSB III as on TSB.  Granted you still can in TSB III, but not w the ease and consistency of TSB, such as getting your RB tackled immediately by a rushing LB down in and down out.  

 

It also seems to me (although I haven't proven this) that the play selection algorithms are more complex than in TSB.  What I mean is, it seems that in TSB if you don't pick pass it is a certainty (or near it) that no one will cover.  In TSB III I've yet to see any consistent correlations in terms of how players react on the field in relation to offensive plays being picked and defensive plays being pick, in combination w/ alignment choice.

There are still some ridiculous, quirky elements of TSB III- no doubt, but it is a TECMO football game after all....

Anyway...I'm not here to convince anyone. I think a lot of it comes down to what we are familiar with, and hence are most likely better at. It's tough to make the transition, or to move back and forth between the games. It's rare to find TSB III lovers and more so hybrid (TSB and TSB III) players, such as Chaos. I understand the vast majority of online Tecmoers are hands down TSB enthusiasts, but I am happy that there is at least a small contingent of TSB III fans, and that this site can bring people together to fulfill childhood dreams, and to make advancements to the game itself (the work done here is phenomenal and much appreciated)....

As to TSB II: it has potential, but it is a half baked project: no first down markers, the yard line it says you are on is out of line, such as you can be on the 82 yard line....I see TSB III as the fully developed TSB II.

Edited February 1, 2013 by CheapCatch

[DFM]

I've never had that issue with 3 being slower. The game clocks move differently, i'll agree with that.

 

I've always looked at the 3 minute quarter in TSB3 being the equivalent of the 5 minute quarters in TSB.

 

Either way... a man vs man game in TSB3 averages around 28 minutes, while a 3 minute computer game tends to last around 18 minutes. These numbers will fluctuate based on the amount of scoring in the game, but I'd imagine that's true in the original as well.

 

What is the general time it takes to play a tsb game?

 

 

I do agree about the sprites. I think the original TSB sprites look crisper.

 

Are you trying to compare TSB3 to NES TSB or SNES TSB? The NES sprites are in no way crisper and the NES game is 5x faster. The SNES sprites are crisper and the SNES speed is marginally faster.

[TecSpectre]

I'm comparing the nes tsb to snes tsb3.

 

In my opinion, TSB3 for the snes is the best game out there.

 

Though I played nes tsb growing up, and still do from time to time now... To me nes tsb feels crisper but it's basically a watered down version of tsb3.

[GameplayLoop]

It's all about gameplay for me. The biggest issue being that the TSB III field dimensions make the game's functional play on a different plain than TSB for the NES. Your visualization (and in turn, makes for a narrower controls usage) is on a less-true North and South direction. It can be illustrated by how the playbook player positions are charted verses the angle when on the field. The alignment is just wrong. I feel on the whole, as well, that the gameplay is less responsive than what I'm used to because the range of motion is thinner in the running game, or post-catch.

Also, I hate most all of the menu sound effects, crowd and player sounds, and all gameplay player effects. It sounds like a field full of digital monkeys.

[GameplayLoop]

And let me add, would I like the functionality of game options in the TSB NES version? Multiple schedules, team customization, audibles, etc. Of course.

[DeBerg]

I am going to have say TSB II. I liked that game better than both of them, since it was much much more difficult to play. I love them all but TSB III was the easiest, unless you are playing with a crappy scrubby roster like the Cardinals. I liked TSB II because it also covered 3 total seasons, and with practice you can still return those interceptions for touchdowns.

 

The NES version of TSB was just way too easy for me. You can easily fly through that game so easily and rack up points. it probably does have better rosters, but I liked the SNES ones much more.

 

TSB II and III stand out the most with defensive formations. I love running the Nickel and Dime, where in the first one and NES you can't really do that at all, same with the SNES one.

Edited February 1, 2013 by TecmoNightmare

[War6]

TSB just brings more to the table in terms of gameplay and play control.  I've tried every single version of the game and they just can't generate the same amount of fun factor.  Too bad Tecmo couldn't build upon what was already there because I do like the some of the features in TSB III.  To me TSB III is very sluggish, its not as user friendly and the graphics are a step down.  I played TSB III exclusively when it came out but the game just fell by the way side like so many other titles and I found myself plugged into the original yet again.  Overall, TSB III wasn't a bad game but its NOT TSB...I don't think there ever will be.  Too bad really, TSB is the BEST game out there...someone just needs to do it RIGHT!!

Edited February 3, 2013 by War6

[buck]

1. TSB gameplay & graphics much better than III.

 

2. TSB teams and ratings are GOLD.

 

3. TSB keeps stats good enough for me.

 

4.  when it comes to a pick up game with a human being, TSB has more than enough complexity to offer.  but it is still a very "arcade" type of game.

 

--

 

I just popped TSB III in the SNES the other day.  I lasted like 4 plays and ejected the cart with force, not caring where it landed.  III Graphics suck, music is gay, it seems to drag and take too many button presses for such a shitty game.

 

--

[CheapCatch]

Of all things people want to latch onto w TSB, how can one be the graphics are better? Or that TSB brings more to the table with game play? One can say that they like the gameplay better, for its simplicity I guess, but it definitely doesn't bring more to the table.

That TSB offers "enough complexity" is a fair enough comment.

Speaking of music:  the lack of music during the game for TSB III is surely a step up.

Edited February 2, 2013 by CheapCatch

[War6]

The graphics in TSB III are clunky, ugly and feel rushed--the 8-bit graphics in TSB are much smoother and the sprite animation is better overall.  The graphics in III are sub-par for a 16-bit machine...the sprites are horrible, Tecmo could have done MUCH better. 

 

Why does TSB bring more to the table?  Do your research--one of the best games of all time!  Where does TSB III rank?  Why do the majority of gamers dislike it?  Well, for me, it's boring, it lacks fun-factor and most importantly it's NOT TSB.  It's like playing a cheap knock off!!  It has a lot of great features but those feature do not overshadow what the original has to offer. 

 

There's a reason the cartridge has Final Edition written on the label...Tecmo realized they already released the best version in 1991.  Let's not forget, they tried to go back with Kickoff & Throwback but those titles didn't quite measure up either.  I would be inclined to say that the crappy DS Kickoff was much better that TSB III--at least they went back to the classic view but they left a few things out.  TSB III and Kickoff could have been great. 

[Bad Moon Rison]

To me, SNES TSB 1 always stands far and away the best of the franchise.  They basically took the good aspects of the NES version, improved upon them, and perfected it.  I still get goosebumps every time I hear the SNES 1 music.

 

I like TSB 3 for SNES and it definitely appeals to me in a slightly different way.  While knowing your players is key in any version of Tecmo, you really have to pay attention to your matchups on the field in TSB 3.  It involves a little more thought, but reaction time is not as important.  It has its own things going for it.

[Bodom]

I just popped TSB III in the SNES the other day.  I lasted like 4 plays and ejected the cart with force, not caring where it landed.

Should have paid attention to where it landed and stomped on it so you don't make that mistake again.

I remember buying this game.  Within 10 minutes of getting home I regretted the decision.

[GameplayLoop]

Straight-up, TSB III made me stop playing TSB on the whole. It would be seven years until I'd pick it up again following my complete disappointment with what was being promoted, at the time, as the final edition. I never played TSB for the Playstation (no reason to). Nor any other TSB/TB game since.

[slim_jimmy7]

To me, SNES TSB 1 always stands far and away the best of the franchise.  They basically took the good aspects of the NES version, improved upon them, and perfected it.  I still get goosebumps every time I hear the SNES 1 music.

 

Hands down if SNES1 had the features of 3, was a little quicker pace, and with an easier ability to run it would give NES a run for its money.

 

Tecmo Super Bowl 3 was a different animal for a different time.  Those of you that talk about the sprites moving slower really need to play it on a real console, the SNES emulators don't do it justice.