32 replies to this topic

[DeBerg]

and I am sure other Saints fans do too.

He might as well ban tackling from Football period since he suspended Jonathon Vilma AN ENTIRE YEAR without even showing evidence and on top of that, those hard hits in games like the NFC Championship were legal.

I just don't understand, you suspend a coach an entire year, VP, half the year, fine the team, take away draft picks, and like you haven't screwed them up the ass good enough, go ahead and suspend their best defensive player for an entire year.

I just don't get it, Vilma got the same sentence as Donte Stallworth but a big difference, Stallworth killed somebody, and I don't remember the Saints defense ever taking anyone out of games.

I also looked up stats, and Vilma only had 2, count 'em, 2 unnecessary roughness ((1 roughing the passer, 1 personal foul)) type penalties all of the last 3 years

Goodell has ruined football. The bounty BS has went on for so long...the Eagles did it under Buddy Ryan against the Cowboys and the media drooled at reporting it. I am pretty sure the Oilers ran bounties too under Jerry Glanville, who's to say the Redskins didn't? This crap has went on for soooooooooooooo long, it's a culture of the game. We already live in the age of video game style football where quarterbacks are easily throwing for 5,000 yards like it's so easy, and players are becoming scared to quit the quarterback too hard cause they might be fined, and it's not as hard for a wide receiver anymore when you can't bump and run once you are 5 yards off the line of scrimmage. I can't imagine what comes next. Might as well ban defenses entirely since Goodell and his super safety BS has already taken enough from the game. It's not even about safety, it's all about MONEY.

I like to think of that 1990 NFCCG when I hear someone complaining about the way the Saints roughed up Favre. Look at what the Giants did to Montana, they took his ass out of the game, closing half of the window on his career. It was a real miracle he even had a few years left in him after that game. But NO ONE complained about it at all. The Niners choked the game away with the turnovers. No one complained and said boo the Giants for roughing up a quarterback. That's why I believe the bounty bullshit would have been a non-story back then. Defenses had more control in the old days, now it's all about super offenses that are getting boring fast.

[Maynard_G_Krebs]

Spoken like a true Saints fan.

I don't mind them toning down the game. These guys are messed up by the time they retire, and many of them suffer from degenerative brain issues, meaning, it only gets worse--it does not stay the same or get better.

[hurricane55]

Don't do the crime if you don' t want the time! Cowboys got caught playing with cap loop holes. We got caught. I'm tired of people not wanting to take responsibilty for actions. People are focused on the bounty part. Forget thay they were caught and told to stop as only punishment. They didn't so now they are paying the price for pushing the envelope. As far as as every one does it, that's bs. Not that thereisn't similiar awards, its that no oneseems to be as organized. Considering initial reports had 20+ players, only 4 were tagged shows there must be evidence against them as "ring leaders".

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[brodell]

I personally feel like the penalties given out to the Saints players, coaches, management was stern, yet very much merited. I agree that it is disappointing that the game can't be played like it once was, but all of this is for the safety of the players, while still offering the best entertainment sports has to offer. Think about all of these players from years ago, who have suffered through life long ailments from banging their heads against one another for such a long period of time. And just yesterday, one of the best players in league history allegedly took his own life, with signs pointing to that of post-concussion trauma.

[MRTECMOSUPERBOWL]

Look at what the Giants did to Montana, they took his ass out of the game, closing half of the window on his career. It was a real miracle he even had a few years left in him after that game. But NO ONE complained about it at all.

Joe is doing well actually and plays for the Redskins. He got a do over.

http://wtfr.puretecmo.com/main/player_hist.php?pID=4679

[bgboud2]

Fine fuck it. If the only reason the Saints won the Super Bowl that season is because they beat the shit out of Favre then so be it. Better to have a Super Bowl win and a suspended coach and middle linebacker and banned for life defensive coordinator two years later than nothing at all.
Or perhaps they can just taint the record book as college football does. Hell, just re-assemble the 2009 Vikings and Colts and let them play the real Super Bowl.
I didn't see Frank Gore's head get killed in that 49er playoff game from which the infamous sound byte has come. Pierre Thomas's head was killed by Donte Whitner but I guess he didn't need a bounty for that, and of course the Giants bragged about how the concussed punt returner fumbled twice in their win.
The NFL has always glorified hard hits when it saw fit. http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story?id=09000d5d811d348e&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true
So did ESPN when they told us who got "jacked up".
Will the game will get watered down and turn into the Pro Bowl during the regular season, but yet they'll "let them play" in the playoff games?

[davefmurray]

Fine fuck it. If the only reason the Saints won the Super Bowl that season is because they beat the shit out of Favre then so be it. Better to have a Super Bowl win and a suspended coach and middle linebacker and banned for life defensive coordinator two years later than nothing at all.
Or perhaps they can just taint the record book as college football does. Hell, just re-assemble the 2009 Vikings and Colts and let them play the real Super Bowl.
I didn't see Frank Gore's head get killed in that 49er playoff game from which the infamous sound byte has come. Pierre Thomas's head was killed by Donte Whitner but I guess he didn't need a bounty for that, and of course the Giants bragged about how the concussed punt returner fumbled twice in their win.
The NFL has always glorified hard hits when it saw fit. http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story?id=09000d5d811d348e&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true
So did ESPN when they told us who got "jacked up".
Will the game will get watered down and turn into the Pro Bowl during the regular season, but yet they'll "let them play" in the playoff games?

You are missing the point entirely. Huge hits are going to happen. People still enjoy them and that will never change, and the hits aren't the problem, at all.

Players were encouraged to INJURE people. To go out of their way to INJURE someone and then get a monetary kick back for it.

I, for one, am glad that this happened to the Saints. I am pretty sure that the rest of the league will not participate in these types of programs knowing that the hammer is large and furious if they were to get caught.

[drunken_honkey]

Everyone is thinking too much on this. I believe its as simple as this when the lockout happened, the players said - we need a bigger cut of the pie. Its our bodies being punished. The owners said - well if yall need more money we need more games. The players said - we cant, player safety. Eventually a deal gets done, and the owners agree to keep player safety in mind. New rules get introduced. First thing that come to the commishes attention, a Bounty scandal. Oh, players said player safety is their top concern, yet now they are paying into a pot to hurt each other... Hmm looks like they can go f_ck themelves. Careful what you wish for players, you may just get it. So I
dont just blame the commish for turning the league soft, pay attention to why. The players are suing, complaining, and dieing.

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[DeBerg]

It's Football though, you're gonna get hit and it's going to be tough. Goodell already did enough to turn it into a super easy game.

Just the fact Brees, Brady, an Stafford threw for 5,000 and then Rodgers and Eli came close to it, shows just how easy this league is nowadays. It was different when Marino did it, and much, much harder, and back then you didn't have roughing the passer penalties all the time, and wide receivers got beat out there by guys like Ronnie Lott.

But the thing that bothers me is that. The NFL spend it's years glorifying big hits and big defense, and now the Saints are sinners. Sure they beat up Favre, but if the Colts really wanted to win that Super Bowl, Manning shouldn't have blew it with that pick. From a Saints fan perspective, I feel like they are singling them out and saying shame on you, yet the Giants told the media they were targeting Kyle Williams head against the 49ers in the NFC Championship and Goodell ignored that.

What I want is the proof. Show me the proof the Saints did it. All I ever hear about is beating up Favre and Kurt Warner, why in the hell was their offensive line not protecting them? Those big hits on Favre could have been prevented if the O-line was PROTECTING HIM. The Vikings still whine but they absolutely failed to protect him out there, even that season Favre was getting sacked over 30 times.

Donte Stallworth killed someone, suspended for 1 year. Jonathon Vilma, 2 penalties in 3 years, no proof he injured anyone and he gets suspended same sentence. Goodell is singling out the Saints.

[davefmurray]

It's Football though, you're gonna get hit and it's going to be tough. Goodell already did enough to turn it into a super easy game.

Just the fact Brees, Brady, an Stafford threw for 5,000 and then Rodgers and Eli came close to it, shows just how easy this league is nowadays. It was different when Marino did it, and much, much harder, and back then you didn't have roughing the passer penalties all the time, and wide receivers got beat out there by guys like Ronnie Lott.

But the thing that bothers me is that. The NFL spend it's years glorifying big hits and big defense, and now the Saints are sinners. Sure they beat up Favre, but if the Colts really wanted to win that Super Bowl, Manning shouldn't have blew it with that pick. From a Saints fan perspective, I feel like they are singling them out and saying shame on you, yet the Giants told the media they were targeting Kyle Williams head against the 49ers in the NFC Championship and Goodell ignored that.

What I want is the proof. Show me the proof the Saints did it. All I ever hear about is beating up Favre and Kurt Warner, why in the hell was their offensive line not protecting them? Those big hits on Favre could have been prevented if the O-line was PROTECTING HIM. The Vikings still whine but they absolutely failed to protect him out there, even that season Favre was getting sacked over 30 times.

Donte Stallworth killed someone, suspended for 1 year. Jonathon Vilma, 2 penalties in 3 years, no proof he injured anyone and he gets suspended same sentence. Goodell is singling out the Saints.

Of course he is singling out the Saints. That's the point. It has little or nothing to do with the heavy hits.

[drunken_honkey]

Its not that Vilma hit players, its that the NFL believes he headed the bounties. Im not a Saints fan, so I dont know where you got your information that he was suspended for hits. Again, you blame the commish for softening the league, im a firm believer that its both sides that are responsible. But I agree, evidence would be nice to see. The Saints were warned, and when asked about the Bounty, Vilma and Sean P. both denied it was going on. The league says they have emails that show not only did they know about it, they participated in it. Thats where the 1 year bans were justified by the league. Players preached we care about our safety... Then pay to hurt players. Cant remember the exact #'s off my head, but check out how many roughing the passer flags that were in that game against Minn. The high - low hit that knocked Farve out the game wasnt called, but the league ruled it should have been called. Fined both players on that play. So to blame O-Line for cheap shots, not legal, but cheap shots is ridicul-ass..

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[hurricane55]

Stop comparing donte stallworth. He was the first one who said my fault. I did it. Didn't apeal if im correct. Witnesses said the guy jumped in front if him. The courts got him on accidental (read....not within his control). If you want to compare....try leonard little. He was drunk no ifs. And the LYING IS the fundemental flaw with the saints. Everyone is talking about the on field stuff and its the HR stuff that is the problem. Try lying about simple stuff at yout job. Let me lnow how that turns out.

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[bgboud2]

davefmurry i want a refund

anyway here's the bounty bowl greatest hits

sure is a lot of "cheating" there

fine with me...i was there and was doing my small part to make noise...at least in the superdome we don't put in artificial noise as the metrodome has

TPZCVCZNc50

[drunken_honkey]

Lol, who said anything about cheating? I said the league found that a flag should have been thrown. I didnt say I found it to be illegal or agreed with it. But by the rules, going at the legs of a QB is illegal, thank T. Brady for that! So you just gave us some evidence that they were out to hurt Farve, inside or outside the rules. The physical stuff besides the low shot were not found to be illegal. Those hits may of hurt, but it wasnt until the low shot that he got injured. The league told them to stop with the bounties, they didnt and then lied about. Case closed.

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[Bodom]

It's not the hits that were illegal, it's the fact that they were handing out cash prizes for eliminating players from competition, which the NFL strongly frowns upon these days. Encouraging someone to destroy someone is ok. Encouraging them by offering a cash reward is not. I think the punishments fit the crimes.

That being said, anyone who puts an * next to their Super Bowl title is a crybaby. * are an excuse for losers to make them feel better about their own failure.

[bgboud2]

This is in order of the plays featured (not counting replays).

1) 1 step after ball is thrown and a clean hit.
2) A little tackling after ball is thrown but is that far beyond what we see in football?
3) Gets blown up after handing off on an end around but he did NOT try to avoid contact.
4) 1 step and a two-forearm to the chest hit.
5) More of a fall back by Favre after throwing than a hit by Sharper.
6) Ok, driving him into the turf. Looks like from replay it was flagged. No hit to the head or legs though.
7) The infamous high-low hit. A hit to the legs from behind. Looks like #92 couldn't see if the ball was thrown. Looks like #98 300+ lbs Remi Ayodelle actually held up a bit and couldn't hit him a LOT harder. This wasn't to the front of the knee where it causes a Brady-type injury which caused this rule:
"A rushing defender is prohibited from forcibly hitting in the knee area or below a passer who has one or both feet on the ground, even if the initial contact is above the knee." (aside: The "Brady" injury happened to Carson Palmer when a very good Bengals team faced the Steelers in the 2005 playoffs. Why did we not have a rule until it was Brady?) Anyway this wasn't a Brady type hit to the front of a knee causing an awkward bend and probably would not have hurt Favre had it not been for #98 coming the other way. Doesn't look like on that angle that #92 can see #98 coming up high. At game speed can the human mind really decide what to do? #92 had to make that kind of move to get around the right tackle.
9) 1 step and a hit after the throw.

Notice what's missing out of all these. Helmet to helmet. There was ONE hit at the legs the whole game. I also saw attempts to let up on some of the hits rather than land completely on top of Favre.
As some of you say, lying to the commissioner was the greater sin. Apparently a much greater sin than spying on other team's practices. I mean joeygats got banned for life from ATA but Belicheck didn't miss a game. Done with my morning coffee. TPC?

[bgboud2]

Oh yeah and I'm waiting for the NFL to demand royalties from the Free Sean Payton t-shirts.

[Bodom]

This is in order of the plays featured (not counting replays).

1) 1 step after ball is thrown and a clean hit.
2) A little tackling after ball is thrown but is that far beyond what we see in football?
3) Gets blown up after handing off on an end around but he did NOT try to avoid contact.
4) 1 step and a two-forearm to the chest hit.
5) More of a fall back by Favre after throwing than a hit by Sharper.
6) Ok, driving him into the turf. Looks like from replay it was flagged. No hit to the head or legs though.
7) The infamous high-low hit. A hit to the legs from behind. Looks like #92 couldn't see if the ball was thrown. Looks like #98 300+ lbs Remi Ayodelle actually held up a bit and couldn't hit him a LOT harder. This wasn't to the front of the knee where it causes a Brady-type injury which caused this rule:
"A rushing defender is prohibited from forcibly hitting in the knee area or below a passer who has one or both feet on the ground, even if the initial contact is above the knee." (aside: The "Brady" injury happened to Carson Palmer when a very good Bengals team faced the Steelers in the 2005 playoffs. Why did we not have a rule until it was Brady?) Anyway this wasn't a Brady type hit to the front of a knee causing an awkward bend and probably would not have hurt Favre had it not been for #98 coming the other way. Doesn't look like on that angle that #92 can see #98 coming up high. At game speed can the human mind really decide what to do? #92 had to make that kind of move to get around the right tackle.
9) 1 step and a hit after the throw.

Notice what's missing out of all these. Helmet to helmet. There was ONE hit at the legs the whole game. I also saw attempts to let up on some of the hits rather than land completely on top of Favre.
As some of you say, lying to the commissioner was the greater sin. Apparently a much greater sin than spying on other team's practices. I mean joeygats got banned for life from ATA but Belicheck didn't miss a game. Done with my morning coffee. TPC?

You keep throwing Patriots references in here so I assume this is a response to my post.

I'll say it again. I don't think the "hits" are the problem. I don't even care if players try to injure other players. I'm a huge fan of physical sports. The problem here is putting a cash prize on injuring someone.

The "Brady" injury happened to Carson Palmer when a very good Bengals team faced the Steelers in the 2005 playoffs. Why did we not have a rule until it was Brady?)

Because nobody likes Carson Palmer and he sucks.

Who dat.

[bgboud2]

Not so much to your post as in general, but it seems this is a combination of wrong place/wrong time and one guy getting a slap on the wrist while the other is slammed.

[davefmurray]

The fact that people are still mentioning "the hits" in this thread is befuddling to me.