7 replies to this topic

[CheapCatch]

I realize this topic has much ink spilt over it on this site, but my current posting is inspired by the fact that there is still quite a bit of uncertainty and inconsistency regarding what BB and AGIL amount to in TSB III. In light of this, I embarked on a bit of an experiment to gauge the difference, and I believe I can with confidence proclaim what that difference is.
Body Balance controls spinning and Agility controls jumping. The conclusion reached here has undoubtedly been issued by others, but again, the goal here is to solidify the findings. Below I will post my results, along with some commentary.

I created two players, both with the same RS/RP/MS. One player, call him Lang, had MAX BB and 6 AGIL, while the other player, call him Wms, had MAX AGIL and 6 BB.

BB Results:

Lang (MAX BB) # of Spins # Runs
12 21
5 21
13 21
12 21
13 21
11 21
7 21
8 21

TOTAL: 81 Spins out of 168 Runs (48.2%)
NOTE: Multiple spins on one run are included in these statistics.

Wms (6 BB) # of Spins # Runs
1 28 (took until the 28th rush to produce first spin)
0 21
5 21
0 21
2 21
2 21
2 21
0 21

TOTAL: 12 spins out of 175 runs (6.85%)

----

AGIL Results:

Wms (MAX AGIL) # Jumps # of Opponent Dives
10 14
8 14
10 14

TOTAL: 28 jumps out of 42 opponent dive attempts (66.67%)

Lang (6 AGIL) # Jumps # of Opponent Dives
1 14
1 14
2 14

TOTAL: 4 jumps out of 42 opponent dive attempts (9.5%)

Note: You will notice that there is a much larger sample for the BB experiment than the AGIL experiment. This is due to the fact that to test jumping you need to create the correct scenario, and hope that a player dives at you. This consequently takes many more run attempts to gauge, so in the meantime I continued to compile BB spin statistics until I completed a few samples of AGIL jump statistics. Also, I would like to note that perhaps in the past the idea that one cannot just gauge the # of attempts when analyzing jumping, but has to account for when a defensive player actually dives at a RB, may have been missed when judging AGIL and jumping.

Granting that both RBS had the same attributes outside of BB and AGIL has caused me to conclude that BB solely dictates spinning and AGIL solely dictates jumping. As well, there may has been confusion in the past concerning AGIL, since the booklet proclaims that AGIL controls "how quickly a player changes direction". I do not think AGIL controls that at all in TSB III, since Lang had 6 AGIL and Wms had MAX AGIL, and both maneuvered around the field with ease, and without a discernible difference between the two RBs. Each player, though, shared Emmitt Smith's RP 63/56 MAXSP rating. More likely then "how quickly a player changes direction" has to do with a combination of RP/RS/MS, but that is another mystery to solve for a separate posting.

[bruddog]

If anyone knew the hex locations for the probability tables for those attributes you see if a theoretical calculation matched your experiments...or was within range.

[ Post made on a Tecmo Super Mobile Device!]

[drunken_honkey]

If anyone knew the hex locations for the probability tables for those attributes you see if a theoretical calculation matched your experiments...or was within range.

[ Post made on a Tecmo Super Mobile Device!]

I got those locations, ill post them once I get a chance, might be tomorrow, but I'll get those for you. TSB3 love is always welcomed!

Honkey Vanish!!

[ Post made on a Tecmo Super Mobile Device!]

[CheapCatch]

If anyone knew the hex locations for the probability tables for those attributes you see if a theoretical calculation matched your experiments...or was within range.

[ Post made on a Tecmo Super Mobile Device!]

I got those locations, ill post them once I get a chance, might be tomorrow, but I'll get those for you. TSB3 love is always welcomed!

Honkey Vanish!!

[ Post made on a Tecmo Super Mobile Device!]

Hey, D Honk-

Any chance you can post your findings on the locations?

[Stadawim]

'Tis true - you need look no farther than Emmitt Smith to find an RB on the TSB3 roster that can spin like a top almost every other play. He is definitely the worst. Even Barry doesn't seem to do it as often. But i would assume Barry should be has good.

[hurricane55]

I have the same info as DH, I'll post tonight when I get home. Think we got it from amrush, if I remember correctly. He has most of what each "slider" bytes do.

[ Post made on a Tecmo Super Mobile Device!]

[CheapCatch]

I have the same info as DH, I'll post tonight when I get home. Think we got it from amrush, if I remember correctly. He has most of what each "slider" bytes do.

[ Post made on a Tecmo Super Mobile Device!]

Sweet....thanks.

Honkey wasn't joking when he said he was vanishing....

[hurricane55]

Here is the data. Most are tested and verified. Some of the unknowns i've changed, but can't see any noticable effects on game play.
All have these 8 atts:
RS=Start speed
RP=how fast transition from RS to MS
MS=Straightline speed
HP=Grapple calc number. Think Strength
BB= Body Balance(thread explains above)
AG= Agility (thread explains above)
unseen = Skin Color
unseen = Free Agent Value
Note: I thnk BB = diving for defense since thats the only way to tackle a spinner. AG is jump.

Postional atts: 9 - 13

RB,TE,WR: 10 only
BC= Ball control(Fumbles)
Rec= Hands for passing

All Def: 10 only
INT= Interception ability
Qui= Unknown.

Kicker ( 11) and punter (10). Their kicking atts are used to figure blocked, made, and distabce on punts

QB: 13
PS = "Zip"
PA = Used to figure if a ball is caught
PC = USed to calc overthrows and under throws
PA and PC are theorized
Coolness = How he handles pressure, figures into the over throw under throw.
Scramble = unseen. this dictates his tendency to run.
In the Play AI, a C6 command is followed by receiver shoices, but with 0% chance to throw. It is followed by an AI route to run with the ball.

TSB 3 College ROM addition
We added a byte to the OL
Run = Used to create AI for run blocking
PAss = Used to create AI for PAss blocking


Here is the spreadsheet data from Amrush:

START SPEED hex address : 189B7----16 bytes long.
STRAIGHT SPEED 189C7
HIT POWER 189D7
BB 189E7
AGILITY 189F7
unknown 18A07

Passing calculation 18A17 8 STRINGS of 4 bytes each
PC/PA hack, its the hex that determines if a pass is on target, underthrow, or overthrow. It is the ratings breakdown for the PC for TSB3. Thanks to Jstout and bruddog for breaking this code. See Tecmo Repository for Jstouts hack labeled NES PC and PA
1st byte = chance at Ots, Uts. It is check against random # from 00-FF. If less than, on target, if greater then it is a bad pass
2nd byte, determines if the pass is not on target if it is an overthrow or underthrow
3rd byte = how catchable the under throw is. (if second byte is larger than random number)
4th byte = lower number less likely an overthrow (if second byte is smaller than random number)

Passing speed, FF bullet, 00 floaters 18AD7
unknown 18AE7
Rushing power attribute /Time to go from start speed and max speed 18AF7
Max speed for all in game. FF stupid fast 18B07
unknown 18B17
unknown 18B27
unknown 18B37
unknown 18B47
unknown 18B57
unknown 18B67
BALL CONTROL--fumbling 18B77
REC--Think it controls moving catches 18B87
rec2--Think it controls standing catches 18B97

INTs. Change to FF all covered passes are intercepted 18BA7
KICK ARROW SPEED / INC OF 8 1C9AC
ARROW RANGE / COUNTS DOWN 1C9BC