Jump to content
Randy Moss

Passing Game Ratings

Recommended Posts

I've read the thread in hacking documentation where someone was trying to figure out what the ratings had to be to effect INTS, deflections, and coverage catches.

Obviously what complicates matters is we have 3 ratings to worry about: Pass Control, WR Catch, and DB Catch.

Much like how popcorn happens (where the RB is 50 points higher in HP than the DB), or how a pass rusher breaks a block (25 points higher than the blocker in HP), I'm betting that Tecmo determines INTs, catches, and pass deflections the same way.

I hopefully want to figure out exactly what the ratings scales are so I can say for sure when a catch, int, or deflection will occur. This would really help out in determine what kind of spread to use when rating the DBs, WRs, and QBs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

try this - record a video of a pass from a qb to a wr covered by one db.

vary the ratings and note any changes when the video is replayed.

I'm not quite sure how this will work because I don't know when the calculations are made for what will be successful and what will not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
try this - record a video of a pass from a qb to a wr covered by one db. Vary the ratings and note any changes when the video is replayed.

I would try like Rod said. From my looking so far, I have got as far as the game taking the probabilities for Pass Control + Receptions - Interceptions right when the ball upon the receiver but can't currently find what it is doing with that number once calculated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
try this - record a video of a pass from a qb to a wr covered by one db. Vary the ratings and note any changes when the video is replayed.

I would try like Rod said. From my looking so far, I have got as far as the game taking the probabilities for Pass Control + Receptions - Interceptions right when the ball upon the receiver but can't currently find what it is doing with that number once calculated.

That sounds about right actually. My hunch is that if the PC + Rec is say 50 points more than the INT rating, it is a coverage catch. If it is 49 thru 25 points higher maybe it is a deflection, and if it is less than 25 points higher an INT.

I'll try to set up some tests in the next couple of days and hopefully come to a conclusion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

its a 3 nothc difference for whiff's and jump int's

a 69int guy can jump pick a 50pc guy

likewiseI think a 50int guy can whiff on a 69pc pass.

JJ's anc cc's can ocur no matter what the ratings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
its a 3 nothc difference for whiff's and jump int's

a 69int guy can jump pick a 50pc guy

likewiseI think a 50int guy can whiff on a 69pc pass.

JJ's anc cc's can ocur no matter what the ratings.

Yeah I'm not even looking at jump picks or jumping/diving catches. I think those are more based on timing than ratings.

What I'm trying to do is to see what the ratings do when all things are equal.

The test I'm running is just passing at a single covered WR on a curl route after he is stopped. I want to find out when a coverage catch will happen, when an INT will happen, when a deflection will happen -- based on the ratings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

diving catches are definitely different than other catches. ive had divers catch shit with 4 defenders waiting where the ball was to land. i was using a KReturner with 6 rec and that was happening...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think you'll figure out what you are trying to figure out. For instance, i don't think a 100int defnder will intercept a 06pc, 06 rec wr ALL of the time.

its a 3 nothc difference for whiff's and jump int's

a 69int guy can jump pick a 50pc guy

likewiseI think a 50int guy can whiff on a 69pc pass.

JJ's anc cc's can ocur no matter what the ratings.

Yeah I'm not even looking at jump picks or jumping/diving catches. I think those are more based on timing than ratings.

What I'm trying to do is to see what the ratings do when all things are equal.

The test I'm running is just passing at a single covered WR on a curl route after he is stopped. I want to find out when a coverage catch will happen, when an INT will happen, when a deflection will happen -- based on the ratings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't think you'll figure out what you are trying to figure out. For instance, i don't think a 100int defnder will intercept a 06pc, 06 rec wr ALL of the time.

its a 3 nothc difference for whiff's and jump int's

a 69int guy can jump pick a 50pc guy

likewiseI think a 50int guy can whiff on a 69pc pass.

JJ's anc cc's can ocur no matter what the ratings.

Yeah I'm not even looking at jump picks or jumping/diving catches. I think those are more based on timing than ratings.

What I'm trying to do is to see what the ratings do when all things are equal.

The test I'm running is just passing at a single covered WR on a curl route after he is stopped. I want to find out when a coverage catch will happen, when an INT will happen, when a deflection will happen -- based on the ratings.

I've already ran a test with a 44 INT vs. a 6 PC and a 6 REC. He intercepted the ball about 95% of the time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is the code (I removed anything useless in learning) of one player vs one player standing (no dives, jumping, no while running, etc). It is really too much to explain (I added notes where possible) but you can check it out and I can explain any ASM you don't get.

For those wondering, it basically is Pass Control + Reception - Interception and adjusting the number based upon random numbers. If the final number is 33 or less a INT happens, 34 to 50 then a deflection, else a reception.

Hopefully, I can figure out the other types of catches to see if it works the same or differently.

; Section to Grab Numbers
LDA $BF04,Y ; Load Pass Control Value
STA $DC
LDA $BF14,Y ; Load Reception Value
CLC
ADC $DC ; Pass Control + Reception
SEC
SBC $BF24,Y ; (Pass Control + Reception) - Load Interception Value
BCS $9EA4
LDA #$00
TAX ; <- $9EA4
LDA $3B ; Random Number
CLC
ADC #$83
STA $3B
LDA $3C ; Random Number
ADC #$0D
STA $3C
LDA $3D ; Random Number
ADC #$11
STA $3D
RTS

; Section to make usage of Random Numbers
LDA $3B
AND #$03
BEQ $D914 <- From AND = 0
CMP #$01
BEQ $D90E <- From AND = 1
CMP #$02
BEQ $D90B <- From AND = 2
LDA $3D
RTS ; <- Get Out of this Loop
LDA $3C ; <- $D90B
RTS ; <- Get Out of this Loop
LDA $3D ; <- $D90E
CLC
ADC $3C
RTS ; <- Get Out of this Loop
LDA $3D ; <- $D914
CLC
ADC $3C
ADC $3B
RTS ; <- Get Out of this Loop

; Section to create number for outcome
ORA #$80
STA $45
LDA #$00
STA $44
LDY #$08
ASL $44 ; <- $D7A8
ROL $45
BCC $D7BA
TXA
CLC
ADC $44
STA $44
LDA $45
ADC #$00
STA $45
DEY ; <- $D7BA
BNE $D7A8 ; When Y = 0 then get out of loop
RTS

; Section to determine outcome
LDA $45
SEC
BCC $9D96
LDY $E7
CMP #$33
BCC $9DF1 ; Interception
CMP #$50
BCC $9DEE ; Deflection
;Else it becomes a Reception:
LDX $DD ; <- $9D96
LDA $E8
JSR $9E76

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How much can the random numbers sway the final number. So Montana to Rice on Carrier still equals 81, so it would have to have the random number take it down 30 to get a deflection, and about 50 to get the INT?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How much can the random numbers sway the final number. So Montana to Rice on Carrier still equals 81, so it would have to have the random number take it down 30 to get a deflection, and about 50 to get the INT?

Flo, you are thinking in terms of skill and not value.

Montana = 55

Rice = 55

Carrier = 4B

Total = 5F (This is a lot closer to 50 and 33)

Here is a 10 play example with those 3 players:

Total:  5F    5F    5F      5F      5F
$3B AA D5 66 30 71
$3C B2 E9 33 97 07
$3D A2 85 D3 A9 33
Outcome 5A 55 3C 45 4B
Type Catch Catch Deflect Deflect Deflect

Total: 5F 5F 5F 5F 5F
$3B 04 F3 33 A7 69
$3C 71 4D 0C C8 8F
$3D 71 3A 86 B6 64
Outcome 30 51 38 4F 5E
Type INT Catch Deflect Deflect Catch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jstout, is it possible to chart what happens based on the TSB ratings. It helps me think more in TSB terms I guess.

In the last example, Montana has 81 PC, Rice 81 CTH, Carrier 81 INT.

(81 + 81) - 81 = 81 --- We see out of 10 outcomes, 5 Defl, 4 CC, 1 INT.

Based on the difference in ratings (in this example 81), can you give a range where no INTs will occur, or conversely where no CCs will occur.

I'm guessing that for no INTs to occur the PC+CTH - INT (using TSB ratings) will 100 or greater, with more CCs occuring the higher the difference. Also, for CCs to stop occuring, I think the difference will be less than 50. The lower you go, the more INTs will occur.

That would give us a range of between 50 and 100 where both CCs and INTs could occur if what I wrote is anywhere close to correct.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let me run a bunch of tests to figure out how the values for always a catch and always an INT. Here is a brief scale of the current high and low:

100 PC + 100 REC - 6 INT = 83

100 PC + 100 REC - 100 INT = 65

100 PC + 6 REC - 100 INT = 47

6 PC + 6 REC - 100 INT = 29

NOTE: PC and REC have the same default values

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The random number is based on time.

I had a series of passes where I only varied the passing speed. Thus, if I had 6 passing speed it was deflected every time. If I had 56 passing speed it was always intercepted. If I had 75 passing speed it was deflected. If I had 94 passing speed, it was intercepted.

Basically what this is telling you is that in the equation of a catch that pass control and receptions are equal in value. Thus an 81 pass control to 56 receptions pass would have the same chance of being caught, intercepted, or deflected as a 56 pass control wr to 81 receptions. Also, the higher the INTs on the db, the more of a chance there is to int or deflect.

This all is nothing new but now the question is what are the percentages to be picked off given a value of PC+REC-INT? Is this more complicated to figure out because of three random values? If the equation is negative, does this always equal an int?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The random number is based on time.

This all is nothing new but now the question is what are the percentages to be picked off given a value of PC+REC-INT? Is this more complicated to figure out because of three random values? If the equation is negative, does this always equal an int?

Yeah, the random numbers are based upon time. You can actually view them in certain emulators. Just by watching them, they are so fast that it is unpredictable on what number you will get. In video playbacks, the random numbers will come out the same because it is time based and will have the exact starting and end point each time.

Right, the theory isn't new (PC+REC-INT was pretty much expected and known) but being able to pinpoint probabilites with exact numbers makes it easier. For testing, I'm basically bypassing the random numbers and just viewing outcomes to find high, low, and the average number given.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

100 PC + 100 REC - 6 INT = 83

100 PC + 100 REC - 100 INT = 65

100 PC + 6 REC - 100 INT = 47

6 PC + 6 REC - 100 INT = 29

I ran some tests yesterday with extreme ratings like this. I seem to have lost my sheet, but going off of memory I believe that

100+100 - 6 -- always a CC

100+ 100 - 100 -- a mix of CC, defl, INT

100+6 - 100 -- either an INT or a deflection (no CCs)

6+6 - 100 -- always an INT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The calculation for 1 Receiver vs 1 Defender:

Total = Pass Control + Receptions - Interceptions

Outcome = Total / 2 to Total - 1

INT = Outcome of x32 or less

Deflect = Outcome of x33 to x4F

Reception = x50 or higher

Skill PC/REC INT
6 3D 33
13 3F 35
19 41 37
25 43 39
31 45 3B
38 47 3D
44 49 3F
50 4B 41
56 4D 43
63 4F 45
69 51 47
75 53 49
81 55 4B
88 57 4D
94 59 4F
100 5B 51

My tests (100 passes each):

100 PC + 100 REC - 6 INT (Total x83): High x82, Low x41, Average x62

6 PC + 6 REC - 100 INT (Total x29): High x28, Low x14, Average x1D

I then did some random tests to make sure the calculation worked as expected and it did.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My tests (100 passes each):

100 PC + 100 REC - 6 INT (Total x83): High x82, Low x41, Average x62

6 PC + 6 REC - 100 INT (Total x29): High x28, Low x14, Average x1D

I'm sorry, I don't understand any of this. Could you just tell me for your 100 passes, how many were catches, deflections, and interceptions in each case?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did a little number crunching to find some good ranges. These numbers are all in regular TSB Ratings.

(PC+REC) - INT = +119 --- roughly 50% CC's, 50% deflections

If you go higher than +119, all the way up to +194, the ratio of CC's will steadily increase.

(PC+REC) - INT = +106 -- no chance of INT

(PC+REC) - INT = +56 -- roughly 66% deflections, 16% CC's, 16% INTs

(PC+REC) - INT = +31 -- no chance of CC

(PC+REC) - INT = 0 -- 50% INTs, 50% deflections

(PC+REC) - INT = -56 -- 100% INTs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

this came to mind while i was at work today...

The ghost arrow: in the formula pc+rec-int=X , where is the "rec" number drawn from (which wr) if you press the A button right after you throw it so that the ball is not thrown to the reciever with the arrow over him?

im thinking that it wont make much of a difference, but i've thought before and we all have seen what that can do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
this came to mind while i was at work today...

The ghost arrow: in the formula pc+rec-int=X , where is the "rec" number drawn from (which wr) if you press the A button right after you throw it so that the ball is not thrown to the reciever with the arrow over him?

im thinking that it wont make much of a difference, but i've thought before and we all have seen what that can do.

I didn't even know you could do that. But then, that's only useful for MAN games and I don't play many of those.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×