necrobeast Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 So I've finally decided to start on the TSB editor I've wanted to make for a long time tonight...it appears by browsing these boards that a TON of new information has been discovered about the ROMs since Flash's TSB editor's were released ages ago (I'm fairly proud to say that I helped out in the development of the original TSB manager).Anyway, First up, I wouldn't mind hearing a list of requested features (feasible features mind you...something that could be implemented with information that's readily available)...and if anybody has a good compilation of all the ROM data that's available (hex locations of different information), I'd really appreciate it. I should be able to make some decent progress tonight...I'm certainly not promising anything soon as I've got a lot going on...but I'd definitely like input from the community on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruddog Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Do you have an AIM screenname? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruddog Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Things that I can think of off the top of my head if it is just going to be an editor:1. A better play swapper editor. 2. Easy control of new things found such as: dedicated kick returner, punt returner, etcBut something like what coredump was working on (TSB ULTRA)would be a lot cooler as it would allow for unlimited teams, checking defensive conditions, swapping defensive player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
necrobeast Posted June 30, 2006 Author Share Posted June 30, 2006 you can hit me up as Z6A6K6K on AIM.Tecmo Ultra is cool...I always knew something like that was possible...I sort of have a similar concept in mind years ago but never pursued it (didn't want to deal with NES emulation).Anyway, I think it would be cool to eventually get to a program like TSB Ultra...but for me, the first step is a complete, top-to-bottom editor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
necrobeast Posted June 30, 2006 Author Share Posted June 30, 2006 Well, of course, one of the ideas would be to eliminate the need for doing anything in Hex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstout Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Here is a list of just about everything I can think of that is generally modified or has been by someone:League Editing:Year, League, Conference, and Division NamesVarious Text throughout the romTeam Editing:City, Name, and AbbreviationTeam Background ColorJersey Colors (Game Field, Action Sequences, and the Cutscenes)Ability to select which uniform to wear vs each teamKick Returner and Punt Returner SelectionOffensive PreferenceTeam's PlaybookTeam's Formation (2 Back, 3-Wide, or Run&Shoot)Player Editing:Name, Number, Attributes, and FaceAttribute Probablities:Player Attribute ProbabilitiesSpeed and Distance of Kicking ArrowPunt and Kicking DistancesSim Editing:Team and Player Sim NumbersOffensive Preference <- Listed above as wellComputer Juice:Weekly computer juice valuesSchedule Editing:Schedule DatesWeekly Team vs Team MatchupsPro Bowl Editing:Pro Bowl PlayersPro Bowl PlaybooksPro Bowl Offensive PreferenceGameplay Editing:Quarter LengthNumber of Points for TDs, FGs, and SafetiesNumber of Downs (including final down popups)Number of Yards for a 1st DownAdjust Kickoff LocationPlaybook Editing:Play Name, Formation, Play Numbers, and Defensive ReactionsGraphics for the Plays including the Run Name DisplayNumber of Play Slots for Run/PassPlayer lineup for the FormationsEditing the play coding for offense and defense (Highly Advanced)Graphic Editing:Tecmo Super Bowl logo, NFL Shield logo, Tecmo Rabbit logo, Team NFL Logo, NFLPA Logo, AFC/NFC Pro Bowl logos, and Player IntrosPlaying FieldLarge and Mini Helmets (plus palettes)Font GraphicsPalette Editing for the graphicsMusic Editing:Swap music to be playedI can give more information for these listed but I just wanted to keep it to a list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
necrobeast Posted July 1, 2006 Author Share Posted July 1, 2006 Here is a list of just about everything I can think of that is generally modified or has been by someone:...I can give more information for these listed but I just wanted to keep it to a list.Wow, I didn't even know about some of this. Gonna be an awesome project! I'm going to start on the basic stuff that I know how to do (or can reverse engineer from previous apps...) and then I'll start hitting you up for help. You can also compile all the information together and shoot it off to me, if you'd like. I'm thinking this should totally be an open source project and I'll distribute the hacking documention with the program... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAD_AL Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 I think the most useful thing would be a helmet manager program (for both large and small helmets).Features:1. extract each team's helmet (from a given ROM) to a bmp file.2. ability to assign one of the bmp (helmet) files to a team in the ROM.As far as Player name, and attribute editing go we already have TSBM and TSBTool to do these things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
necrobeast Posted July 1, 2006 Author Share Posted July 1, 2006 I think the most useful thing would be a helmet manager program (for both large and small helmets).Features:1. extract each team's helmet (from a given ROM) to a bmp file.2. ability to assign one of the bmp (helmet) files to a team in the ROM.As far as Player name, and attribute editing go we already have TSBM and TSBTool to do these things.One of the general ideas is to have a TSB editor that is an all-in-one so you don't have a half dozen utilities to make all the changes you want to make in a ROM. Sure, I could be accused of re-inventing the wheel...but it's not like the source code is readily available for TSBM. If nothing else, I'm simply doing this project because it'll be fun and a great intellectual challenge. Being useful to this community would just be a great side effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAD_AL Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 If you want to do an all-in-one program, that's going to be a pretty big project (unless you omit graphic hacking).What do you plan on writing this in (C, C++,C#, Java, VB, ...)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBeef Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 1 request and I know its been said it can't be done. But being able to produce a rom with all 32 teams. Somehow there's got to be a way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
necrobeast Posted July 1, 2006 Author Share Posted July 1, 2006 If you want to do an all-in-one program, that's going to be a pretty big project (unless you omit graphic hacking).What do you plan on writing this in (C, C++,C#, Java, VB, ...)?Yeah, it's going to be a HUGE project...I've already started on it, I'm writing it in VB.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAD_AL Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 If you'd like I could give you a .NET dll with all of the functionality of TSBTool.By doing that you would get the following:1. Player Attribute editing (name, jerseyNumber, abilities, face, sim data).2. Schedule editing.3. Text input parsing.4. Kick/Punt Return men assignment.5. Team Sim editing (along with offensive preference).Then you could concentrate on the stuff that hasn't yet been done ( at least not done in TSBTool).Or you could go ahead and re-invent the wheel.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
necrobeast Posted July 1, 2006 Author Share Posted July 1, 2006 If you'd like I could give you a .NET dll with all of the functionality of TSBTool.By doing that you would get the following:1. Player Attribute editing (name, jerseyNumber, abilities, face, sim data).2. Schedule editing.3. Text input parsing.4. Kick/Punt Return men assignment.5. Team Sim editing (along with offensive preference).Then you could concentrate on the stuff that hasn't yet been done ( at least not done in TSBTool).Or you could go ahead and re-invent the wheel..wow, I didn't even know such a thing existed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malferds Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 The helmit suggestion is a genius idea. being able to replace graphics in the game with a bmp image would be very very usefull. the music changing would be more of a vanity.I know a stat input rating calculator would have a lot of potential.TSB TOOL is a life saver. no exhageration. without it i would not be making roms. i spent an unnecessary amount of WEEKS i could have saved if i had TSB tool back when making the all time greats rom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAD_AL Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 You can get TSBTool from the uploads section http://www.tecmobowl.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6941 .You can use Lutz Roeder's 'Reflector' tool to view the 'disassembeled' source code (in either C# or VB.net) http://www.aisto.com/roeder/dotnet/ .If you wanted to interact with TSBTool you could do either of the following:1. Reference 'TSBTool.exe' and create the objects, subclass objects, call static functions ect...2. Construct string input for it to read and just 'exec' it, feeding it the input via standard in.One of it's little used functions is the 'SET' command.SET( , )SET( 0x3456B, 0x55AB)It's a very simple command, but it can be used to accomplish any hex edit (which can be useful when writing/generating scripts).If you wanted to use a DLL instead of the .exe I could go through the code and make the functionality easier for outside apps to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
necrobeast Posted July 1, 2006 Author Share Posted July 1, 2006 BAD_AL thanks for the offer, I'll definitely play around with. Way cool. However, since I would like to make something that's completely open source, I may go ahead and re-invent the wheel...of course, I may also get impatient and go ahead and build on what you've done. LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAD_AL Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 So if you are going to re-invent the wheel I'd like to make some suggestions.1. Use an xml-text based format as a description of work to do. (By doing this you can make it easy for outside applications to create content targeting your program).2. Employ an extensible plug-in based architecture so that the program's functionality can be extended easily (something where each plug-in would register for 1 or more distinct 'Work' commands). An example of this would be like:TEAM=billsQB1, qb BILLS, Face=0x52, #0, 25, 69, 13, 13, 56, 81, 81, 81 ,[3, 12, 3 ]QB2, frank REICH, Face=0x22, #14, 25, 69, 13, 13, 31, 44, 25, 50 ,[3, 3, 2 ]RB1, thurman THOMAS, Face=0x83, #34, 38, 69, 63, 25, 75, 50 ,[10, 7, 8, 8 ]RB2, jamie MUELLER, Face=0x51, #41, 44, 69, 25, 88, 50, 25 ,[5, 3, 6, 2 ]The program would read an xml file/string looking for 'work' tags, when it came to a work tag it would lookup the plug-in that could do the specified work command. Then it would pass the command, body, and the output ROM as arguments to the plug-in (so it could do the work).The plug-ins would be responsible for providing a GUI for creating the xml text as well as a parser to handle the 'work'. If a plug-in for the 'work' could not be found, it would generate/show an error message and move on (or perhaps just stop). Plug-ins should also be able to hand off work to other plug-ins.By using the plug-in approach you could deliver your base program quickly, and then concentrate on delivering features as you feel they are ready (rather than 1 big drop at the end of development). Also it would be easier to divvy up work to others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
necrobeast Posted July 1, 2006 Author Share Posted July 1, 2006 okay, the XML work format is not a bad idea at all. Let's talk about that more when I move on to doing the user interface. First and foremost is reading/writing all the data to/from the ROM. I'm gunning for a nice object oriented approach that's both easy to understand and maintain. I want that in place and perfect before the UI becomes an issues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAD_AL Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 I really think that if you are going to do this you should make it extensible. If it's open source then anybody can modify it to add features, but you run the risk of having 'n' different programs out there (that are all possibly a little different). If you make it easy to add features, this becomes less of a problem.Off the top of my head I can envision several useful plugins (major features):1. Player data plug-in.2. Team data plug-in (sim data, playbook, uniform colors, formation).3. Schedule plug-in.4. Helmet manager plug-in.5. Rating calculator plug-in.6. Season generator plug-in (kinda like TSBSeasonGen).7. Gameplay plug-in (modify points per score, quarter length, ect...).8. Font selector plug-in.9. Play editor plug-in.If you want to eliminate the need for several specialized utility programs, the plug-in model is a great way to go.It wouldn't take a terribly long time to implement a plug-in framework. Have a look at the following link for an example of how to do the plug-in (assembly) loading http://www.c-sharpcorner.com/Code/2002/ ... lyInfo.asp . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
necrobeast Posted July 5, 2006 Author Share Posted July 5, 2006 Just a quick update for interested parties: The reading/writing of players names and jersey numbers to/from the ROM is completed to my satisfaction. With the funky name pointers, this is actually a semi-tricky thing to pull of right.Currently working on reading/writing the players individual stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRG Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 So I've finally decided to start on the TSB editor I've wanted to make for a long time tonight...it appears by browsing these boards that a TON of new information has been discovered about the ROMs since Flash's TSB editor's were released ages ago (I'm fairly proud to say that I helped out in the development of the original TSB manager).Anyway, First up, I wouldn't mind hearing a list of requested features (feasible features mind you...something that could be implemented with information that's readily available)...and if anybody has a good compilation of all the ROM data that's available (hex locations of different information), I'd really appreciate it. I should be able to make some decent progress tonight...I'm certainly not promising anything soon as I've got a lot going on...but I'd definitely like input from the community on this.A request if this project is still in the works...Use apostrophes' in players' names (na'il diggs)The apostrophe is already in the game, it just needs to be incorporated to display correctly on tds/sacks, i.e. the larger text. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tJepp Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 in using the TSBmanagers, i've always been frustrated by the lack of information on the screen at one time. for example: if the player edit page would include either the face, skin color, or both, that would be time saving. if the attributes could somehow easily be jumped to by using the "Tab" button and then the arrow keys, more time could be saved as well. and finally, to somehow include sim data for that player on the same page, would also be excellent. now knowing what you know about the sim editor, could those attributes be re-named to reflect what they actually do (like how KR ability has nothing to do with actual KR). for the team page, it would be amazing if you could somehow edit the large and small helmets, or at least match them up to resemble one another. using the palette is ridiculous for newbies (like me, even though i've been coming here for years) b/c i'm just not that cpu savvy. could the editor have an easier way? could MS paint somehow be used or mimicked?would it be possible to include a "what if" uniform editor, like "what if Indianapolis plays at San Diego", an edit option that allows you to override the home jersey for san diego, b/c an all white uniform for the colts is totally gay on tecmo. everything elst that is listed on this topic awesome. when can we expect it??????????????????????????????????????????????????i'd pay $$ for it if it had everything listed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
necrobeast Posted January 3, 2008 Author Share Posted January 3, 2008 Yeah, unfortunately, I made the mistake of starting this project right around the same time I was starting my own business, I got in way over my head. It looks like in the time since, thinks have advanced pretty far, what with a 32 team ROM now available. I new it was possible but never invested the time myself to figure it out. It's awesome to see the community still alive and have advanced this far. Crazy to think that I did the first good hack of tecmo over 10 years ago based on the 1997 season. Congrats to everyone for busting their tails on this stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afdave Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 Did you start anything with it?I was thinking of starting a "SourceForge" type project to build something in a community fashion as an "All in one" TSB editor (Settings, Players, Teams, Graphics, and "advanced mod" loading, like the 50-yard and 8-man options).If you've started something that would be a good start, better to start with something even small than nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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