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TheRook

Team Tiers for Default Settings Tournament

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My friends and I have been having a little tecmo tournament between ourselves for the past few years.  The tournament has not been made open to the public and it has a unique set of rules slightly different from madison rules.  Teams are selected based on a tier system similar to the Tomczak bowl's but with a twist.  You are not allowed to change your playbook or starters before or during the matchups.  As a result our tiers are different from Tomczak's.  The current tiers can be seen in the picture here:

 

Tiers.thumb.png.4c30d60c74359d1b9847c03ffd56a52a.png

 

Before a match starts, player 1's team is chosen at random by some software code we wrote.  This team can be any of the 28 possible.  Player 2's team is chosen based on the tier(s) player 1's team falls in.  Player 2's team must in the same or an applicable tier based on player 1's team.  For example using our current system, if player 1 was GB, player 2 could only be CLE, SEA, IND or NE.  If player 1, was DAL player 2 could only be DET, RAM, WAS, MIN, ATL, DEN, CIN, SD or TB.

 

Taking into consideration that "You are not allowed to change your playbook or starters before or during the matchups." how good do you think these team tiers are?  Are there any changes you would suggest being made?

Edited by TheRook

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Looks like a pretty interesting system of tiering the teams.  I can't say I have all the default playbooks and starters memorized, but I can see why a team like the Lions would be higher on your tier list.  They have a pretty standard run and shoot playbook minus a couple plays that would give you an advantage versus other teams that would usually be considered in their tier, but have a lesser playbook.  The other thing to consider though, is Mel Gray can't be utilized in this format, and that would bring their value down a tad.   Given your format I don't see anything that jumps out at me as totally out of place.  Usually the Falcons are lower and Bengals higher, but I'm pretty sure the Bengals have a default flea flicker and reverse in their playbook.   It looks legit.  I think it is pretty cool that everyone has their own unique way of playing the same game.  Anyway you play it, it's still a blast.

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In my opinion DET and ATL probably have the two best default playbooks in the game.  CIN doesn't have a reverse, but they do have a flea flicker and a play where the qb drops far back.  SD and DEN are the ones with the reverses and flea flickers.  PHX and MIN have reverses and reverse flea flickers.  There are other plays and playbooks with similar flaws.  For the most part, we have tried to group the teams based on flaws and what teams had capable defenders that could exploit those flaws.  Figured the mentality of, if both teams can make use of the same trick on each other, then its a fair.  Or if the team is really good with bad plays and the other is bad with good plays, then it can be fair to the right extent.

 

We play with defaults because when you played as a child, you used defaults.  Its a means of great nostalgia for us.  And it can level the playing field for people that might not know the best playbooks or what bench players are better than starters.

Edited by TheRook

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We have considered putting teams with really bad playbooks (SD, PHX, MIN) in overlaping tiers as that would give them a better matchup spectrum putting them against weaker teams, however that would also increase their odds of being played.  Teams at the overlaps will come up more often in the software code as they have more possible matchups.  So we tried to place popular teams with good playbooks at the overlaps while keeping bad playbook teams grouped against each other. 

 

The current teams at the overlaps are RAI, DET, ATL, DAL, TB, and CLE.  As my friends and I are from the Cleveland area, Cleveland and Vinny Testaverde are popular.  RAI, DET, DAL all have legendary RBs and DAL had a notable franchise in the early 90s.  ATL is also involved at the overlap as their playbook is really good and their team skill fits their current position.  Two teams are at the middle overlap as the current tier design puts 6 teams in tiers 2-5 and 5 teams in tiers 1 and 6.  This leads to Middle of the road teams ultimately get used more so than really good or really bad teams.

 

DEN, SD, and CIN are bad playbook teams with similar skill and they are all in the same tier.  They have RBs that can do well against TB.  While TB's front 7 are not good at blowing up a lot of bad plays.  DEN, SD, and CIN have LBs and Secondaries that can get takeways and make up for some of their short comings against DAL and ATL.    Bad playbooks can ruin your offense but not special teams or defense.  NYG has a bad playbook but their defense is so good we couldn't justify lowering them to a lesser tier.  MIN and WAS have unique and wonky playbooks with MIN being notably terrible.  RAMs have no shotgun plays and a QB drop back that closely resembles the rest of its plays but will still give itself away early.  ATL and DAL starters are weaker than RAM, WAS, MIN but the playbooks involved close the gaps.  If you think things can be done better to improve the viability of bad playbook teams, please let me know.

 

DET may have an easy time against its tier 3 opponents but not so much against its tier 2 opponents.  Not sure they have been balanced right in the tier system to be honest so any feed back here you may have is more than welcome.

Edited by TheRook

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Talked to my friends that helped me make the initial rankings.  Considering the strength of DEN's LB 4 (How well he blows up TB and SD plays) and how bad MIN plays are, I think we are going to switch DEN and MIN in the tier listings.  That should improve MIN, SD, and TB viability.  But I'm not sure how fair that would be with DEN LB4 vs RAM LB4 since DEN's playbook is worse.  Thoughts?

 

Also how do you think ATL and DEN pair against each other?  I can't say I've ever played that matchup.

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Yes, lurching is against the rules when done by the nose tackle or any of the DL in our tourney. 

 

We don't out right disqualify the person for it though.  If you are caught doing it and its your first time doing it, your opponent gets to pick your next play and you are not allowed to touch your controller during that play.  If its your second offense, that happens for 2 plays, and so on.  It should be noted that this counter does NOT reset at the end of the game or tournament.  It carries over in your player history.  So if you did it once last year and you did it once this year, that would be your second time breaking the rule so you get penalized for two plays.

 

We were considering having the same rule apply to LB4 though, with DEN and RAM being the two main offenders if we put them in the same tier, we might not need to.

 

How well do you think DEN does against DET and WAS?

Edited by TheRook

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1 hour ago, TheRook said:

Yes, lurching is against the rules when done by the nose tackle or any of the DL in our tourney. 

 

We don't out right disqualify the person for it though.  If you are caught doing it and its your first time doing it, your opponent gets to pick your next play and you are not allowed to touch your controller during that play.  If its your second offense, that happens for 2 plays, and so on.  It should be noted that this counter does NOT reset at the end of the game or tournament.  It carries over in your player history.  So if you did it once last year and you did it once this year, that would be your second time breaking the rule so you get penalized for two plays.

 

We were considering having the same rule apply to LB4 though, with DEN and RAM being the two main offenders if we put them in the same tier, we might not need to.

 

How well do you think DEN does against DET and WAS?

I see!  I was wondering about lurching as if it was allowed it would change the team rankings a bit some too.

 

With playbook changes allowed, DEN, DET, and WAS all match up pretty well against each other.  Although in your format I would say DET > WAS > DEN.  Detroit has the best playbook of the 3 and an elite running back.  Washington's motion playbook can be a bit confusing to defend and if the player controlling the skins is a good tapper, it is actually a solid playbook given the running plays.  If I remember correctly DEN has that crappy run 2 and flea flicker, that would hurt them quite a bit as those plays are auto blow ups.

Edited by allamerican1569

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What you say of denver is true.  Do you feel MIN or DEN fairs better against RAM, WAS, DET?  Or do you feel its about the same?

 

If its about the same or DEN would do better than I think swapping DEN and MIN may be the right call given the positioning of other teams.

Edited by TheRook

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47 minutes ago, TheRook said:

What you say of denver is true.  Do you feel MIN or DEN fairs better against RAM, WAS, DET?  Or do you feel its about the same?

 

If its about the same or DEN would do better than I think swapping DEN and MIN may be the right call given the positioning of other teams.

I think MIN would fair better against the RAM, WAS, and DET.  Minnesota's speed on D makes is easier to stop Barry Sanders.  The Joey Browner interception factor helps increase picks against DET and WAS as well as combat covered catches of the RAMS passing game.  Minnesota is one of those teams where the defense can win some games for you.  Since the defense is always static in any format, MIN's D would be greater than a locked in Broncos default playbook.

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Then either we should switch DEN with WAS or not move DEN at all

 

Since DET is on an overlap, its odds of being paired against DEN would be lower than DEN vs MIN/WAS if DEN was moved

Edited by TheRook

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