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Current Players bound for the Hall... Let The Debate Begin

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I didn't include him on my list - but thinking about it some more I'm surprised you'd shoot this down.

 

I agree with you in principal, but you don't think there should be an exception for the greatest KR of all time?

 

There was already an exception made for the greatest KR of all time: Gayle Sayers. 

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^ Wouldn't be surprised to see M. Harrison inducted 1st-ballot;  but rather he not be... (Put Brown, or Reed, in ahead of him...)

 

 

At this point, it's definitely Fitzgerald over Andre Johnson, for me

 

He should go in, and probably on the 1st ballot. I get he played with Manning but look at his body of work... enough said. Other WR's played with Marino, Brady, Brees, Fouts, Elway, Favre etc. and didn't do the damage Harrison did.

 

Considering anyone with under 5 years of service is pretty pointless.  Barry Sanders tearing his ACL year 5 probably torpedoes his career.

 

He said "possible projections" or something like that. Considering in a year or so he should be the best cover corner in the game, and he returns kicks?!? It's not a given as anything can happen, but if he continues on his path/trajectory, you should see him Canton.

 

IMO, Brees is in. But he's just below the other two guys. He's got basically the same numbers as Brady, without ALL the Superb Owls. Considering the era, I think what I said makes sense. He's in the "retire today (literally) and he's in category. As in, it's borderline, if he quit today, that he's in - but he is. 

 

Rogers has about as many yards as Steve Beuerlein. I love Rogers, but there is no way that if he walked away today he's HOF. IMO, he's the best QB in football when playing his best - but that's not what we're talking about.

 

Troy is tied with Ray Lewis for career ints. He's a great player, a player that stats don't tell the whole picture on, I don't think he's a LOCK however. I'd love for someone to explain why he's a sure fire HOFer...

 

Gore hasn't even eclipsed 10,000 yards. What's the justification for him getting in? A SB? I don't think so.

 

Patrick Peterson probably should be on the list - I neglected to consider KR + PR performance. On defense alone he looks good as well, but not quite there.

 

You can argue Brees is a notch below Manning/ Brady, but I believe if Brees didn't throw another pass in his life, he'd still get in.

 

Rodgers may need to put in few more years, but they way everybody jocks, it may not be necessary.

 

Troy P - I agree he probably isn't a "lock" but...  Def. Player of the year + 2 Super Bowls + plus a mainstay on the decade's best defence = HOF? Or it should.

 

Gore - just looked at his stats. Not a "lock", and needs more to get in any shape or form.

 

Peterson - see above.

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My problem with Brady/Manning/Brees is that I think a lot of it will depend on what happens in the future - I mean the next, say, 15 years between now and when these guys become eligible.  Brady and Manning for sure, but if QBs around the league continue to put up Tecmo numbers, I could see future voters getting a little reluctant to just put in a guy for pretty stats.  And I suspect that will be Brees's legacy - a pretty-stats guy, despite the SB win.


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My problem with Brady/Manning/Brees is that I think a lot of it will depend on what happens in the future - I mean the next, say, 15 years between now and when these guys become eligible.  Brady and Manning for sure, but if QBs around the league continue to put up Tecmo numbers, I could see future voters getting a little reluctant to just put in a guy for pretty stats.  And I suspect that will be Brees's legacy - a pretty-stats guy, despite the SB win.

 

I tend to agree with you, that the game being more offensive/ pass happy can change the way we should view thing. For me all I can do is look at someone in respect to their era.

 

Brees has two 40+ TD seasons, only player in this era that can claim that - P. Manning.

Brees has 3 - 5,000 yd seasons (should be 4 on Sunday) - Brady and Manning have 2... combined!!!

 

His career yds and TD totals are the best of his era along side Manning and Brady.

 

Top 3 passer statistically of your era and Super Bowl (+ SB MVP) = HOF to me.

 

Others like Eli and Stafford, maybe not.

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He said "possible projections" or something like that. Considering in a year or so he should be the best cover corner in the game, and he returns kicks?!? It's not a given as anything can happen, but if he continues on his path/trajectory, you should see him Canton.

 

 

Peterson could be on the Rod Woodson path to excellence.

Nnamdi Asomugha and Darrelle Revis had just as good if not better starts to their careers.  Do you think they'll be going to the HOF?

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I'm I crazy thinking Antonio Gates is a lock?  I'm not sure what his numbers are comparatively, but he "feels" like one to me.  Brees is in if he gets hit by a bus tomorrow IMO.  Gore's good, but he doesn't "feel" like a HoF guy to me...maybe if he has 5 more good years then he will.  Fitz isn't there yet either, but will be with a few more good years.



What about Eli?  2 super bowls trump all the derp?  Not for me...  Big Ben needs a few more good years too IMO to get in for sure.  I do think Kurt Warner should get in, even though he didn't play very long. 


 


Vinateiri (sic) and Hester should get in, but won't.  I'll add Lechler to that list of special teams guys who should get in, but probably won't.


 


Some others with a good shot if they keep on their current trajectory:


Wilfork


Ngata


Navarro Bowman


Willis


London Fletcher


Suh


Jared Allen - not there yet for me, but on the right track.


Roddy White - bad year, but was hurt.  

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For me, Gates is a lock, except when compared side-by-side with that other "Tony G"...  (But yeah, i think Antonio gets in)

 

Suh?  Current trajectory?...

Matt Forte seems more likely.

 

And Roddy drops too many balls, IMO

Yeah, but Gonzo is the best ever.  He's first ballot, Gates probably isn't.

 

Suh has been dominant for 3 years now, 5 or 6 more and he's a lock.  Reputation/off field stuff/attitude doesn't matter for football hall like baseball.

 

RBs don't last long enough and Forte isn't durable enough to even have a chance IMO.  I'd be shocked if he ever gets serious consideration, but you never know.

 

TO dropped more balls than anyone and he'll get in.  Roddy's numbers are good, but needs to string together 3-4 more great years. WR is loaded though.

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Not even three weeks in and the League is already starting up the nominations for the Hall of Fame for next year. Looking through their list, i see several players that should be in in the next few years, and some that shouldnt. Let me start with the shoulds:

1. Dick Vermiel- HC Philadelphia Eagles, STL Rams (Won Super Bowl, 1999 Rams lost Super Bowl 1980 Eagles) Kansas City Chiefs
2. Nick Lowery K Kansas City Chiefs, New York Jets
3. Herschel Walker, RB Dallas Cowboys, Philadelphia Eagles, Minnesota Vikings
4. Morten Andersen K New Orleans Saints, Atlanta Falcons, Kansas City Chiefs, Minnesota Vikings
5. Randall Cunningham QB Philadelphia Eagles, Minnesota Vikings, Dallas Cowboys, Baltimore Ravens

Now i do admit there's a bit of bias here since three of the shoulds have been a part of my Kansas City Chiefs, but i also do think their talent speaks volume enough to be included. Morten Andersen did last a long time for a kicker, after all :P 

and here are the should nots/ later down the road:

1. Priest Holmes RB Baltimore Ravens, Kansas City Chiefs
2. Steve McMichael, NT Chicago Bears, Green Bay Packers
3. Edgerrin James, RB Indianapolis Colts, Arizona Cardinals
4. Sterling Sharpe, WR Green Bay Packers
5. Jimmy Smith, WR  Dallas Cowboys, Jacksonville Jaguars

Priest fell short based on not only putting up enough hall of fame numbers, but because of the fact his potential, like Sharpe's, was cut short due to injury. Carl Peterson is to blame for that one.  Edgerrin and Jimmy will be in, but not this year. and Steve McMichael for what its worth didnt really perform up to hall of fame standards unlike his fellow 85 bears Dent, Singletary and Hampton

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I totally agree with 3 of your first 5.  No way 2 kickers getting in at the same time, though.  (And it wouldn't bother me if both of these kickers never get in HoF.)


 


Vermiel, sure thang.  


Walker, easy one IMO, especially when you consider that it's the PRO FOOTBALL hall of fame, not the NFL hall of fame. USFL.


Randall, please, get that guy in there.  The ultimate weapon.  Had a kick-ass year in 1998, too.


 


All three of these guys made their unique mark and changed the game of football for the good.


 


 


Edge, nah. Holmes, no way. Sterling, nah. J Smith, nope.  McMichael, missed his window?  I don't know.


These guys were good players and deserve respect, but not football immortality.


Edited by buck

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I admit two kickers going in is pushing the envelope, but looking at the longevity and accuracy of them both it would be surprising if neither one of them went in. Morten Andersen's accuracy stands at this after 25 years: 98.8 percent PAT,  79.7 percent field goals. Then compare them to the accuracy of Lou Groza and Jan Stenerud: Stenerud only made 66.8 percent of his field goals during his time, Groza only made 54.9 percent of his. Yes, these were different eras and rules, but you can't really say Andersen doesnt at least deserve consideration. Lowery made all but six of his PAT, and holds an 80 percent all time accuracy. He'll most likely be inducted down the road, but as you said two kickers at once is improbable. 


Edited by TecmoSuperFan

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You got me there. Props for that  :cool:  but we'll just have to wait and see since its in its preliminary stage. . There's some others i think might not make it right away, like Kurt Warner or Steve Atwater. here's the list if anyone wants to look in and put their ideal 2015 class up

http://www.nfl.com/hof2015

My ideal Class out of all of them are, in no particular order:

1.Kurt Warner, QB Rams, Giants, Cardinals 1998-2009 (years in league, not counting AFL, Europa or Practice Squad)
2. Randall Cunningham, QB Eagles, Vikings, Cowboys , Ravens 1985-2001 (Only the greatest product from UNLV)
3. Bill Cowher, HC Steelers 1992-2006 (Won Super Bowl, 2005 Steelers)
4. Herschel Walker, RB Cowboys (twice) ,Vikings, Eagles, Giants (1986-1997) USFL Generals (1983-1985) (See Buck's statement :P

5. Kent Hull, C Bills (1986-1996) Generals (1983-1985) (Mainstay anchor of the Bills front line through all four super bowl losses)
6. Clay Matthews LB Browns, Falcons (1978-1996) (Old time pick)
7. Sam Mills, LB Saints, Panthers (1986-1997) USFL Stars (1983-1985) (Dome Patrol, enough said)

of course it's just who i'd think is likely going in but feel free to add  your thoughts

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Colston has great stats. Don't understand the no pro bowl thing but I digress.
The guy I TOTALLY disagree with that people here in Houston think he's a 1st ballot is Andre Johnson. Dude has guys like Dez who have been in the league years after him about to pass him up in touchdown catches. Doesn't play well in big games and makes crucial mistakes in crunch time. (See the thursday night game vs the colts where on a crucial drive, he got called for offensive PI then the next play he catches the ball and fumbles) I jus't dont see it. If it took years for guys like Cris Carter and Art monk to get in, and guys like Tim Brown aren't in it, I see no reason how he can possibly make it in.

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Phillip Rivers didn't make the original list, but I think (yesterday's game vs. K.C. notwithstanding), but this year seems like the HOF intersection in his career.  Imagine how much better his career looks with a possible SB win.  Not saying he's going to make it, but he is actively increasing his stock with his performance this year.


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Phillip Rivers didn't make the original list

because he's not good enough

 

 

There's never been a point where he was the best QB in the league

 

or even his own conference

 

maybe not even ever his own division

 

no way he should get in

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Knobbe


 


Yeah you really gotta fix this "quote" thing, it's giving me issues. I can't even copy/paste your original post. Anyway as for Asomugha and Revis, I would have to say no. Like you said they started of well, but then tailed off. But regarding Patrick Peterson I said "if" he stays on his current path/ trajectory, a big if, but that's why I said it. Revis and Asomugha didn't, they tailed off, we'll have to see if Peterson can keep it up for a significant period of time.


 


And can someone please explain to me why Tim Brown is not in the hall?

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Knobbe

 

Yeah you really gotta fix this "quote" thing, it's giving me issues. I can't even copy/paste your original post. Anyway as for Asomugha and Revis, I would have to say no. Like you said they started of well, but then tailed off. But regarding Patrick Peterson I said "if" he stays on his current path/ trajectory, a big if, but that's why I said it. Revis and Asomugha didn't, they tailed off, we'll have to see if Peterson can keep it up for a significant period of time.

 

And can someone please explain to me why Tim Brown is not in the hall?

 

What is the error when you try to quote or walk me through what happens....as you can see I'm not having problems and therefore do not know what to fix.

What browser are you using? Computer or mobile device?

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because he's not good enough

 

 

There's never been a point where he was the best QB in the league

 

or even his own conference

 

maybe not even ever his own division

 

no way he should get in

 

Respectfully, I question that.  You could easily say the same thing about Fran Tarkenton, though most wouldn't challenge Tarkenton as a HOF quarterback.  Still, Tarkenton was never the best QB in the league, and the only reason he was the best QB in his division for many of the Vikings years was that other NFC Central teams of the day were allergic to good quarterbacks.  Heck, I'm from Buffalo, and I think it's fair to say that Jim Kelly was never the best QB in the league, and may have been the second-best QB in the league only once.  Bob Griese was definitely never the best QB in the league, or anything close to it.  There are plenty of players at every position who are solid Hall of Fame guys who had long careers of distinguished performance (Tarkenton, Griese), rather than guys who were lights-out for shorter periods (Marino, Young).  

 

I'm saying, give Rivers a SB win, and boy does he start to look like he might fit in the prior category.  Since 2000, for quarterbacks with a minimum 2500 attempts, only two quarterbacks have a higher Adjusted Yards per Pass Attempt than Rivers (AY/A is my favorite passer rate stat, and it comes from the awesome 1988 book The Hidden Game of Football, a must-read for anyone who is interested in football metrics).  Those are Aaron Rodgers and Peyton Manning - two no-brainer HOF quarterbacks.  He's higher than three other sure-fire HOF quarterbacks in Brady, the Occasional Rapist, and Drew Brees.  You might not be able to point to a particular season and say that Rivers was the best in the league that year, but when you take a slightly broader view, he is right at the top of the list of passers in his era.

 

I think this just begs the question: what sort of QBs from the pass-happy 2000s should belong to the HOF?  I think it's different than in eras past, and a guy like Rivers adds an interesting wrinkle to that debate.

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Rivers might be a wrinkle, to me but he is just a decent modern QB in a sea of shitty modern NFL QBs.  Rivers probably aint gonna be gettin a SB ring (or even a trip to SB).  His playoff record is like 4-5 I think.  


 


I would take Tarkenton 10 times out of 10 over Rivers.  


 


If Rivers goes to the Hall of Fame, I will no longer even discuss the HoF or care about it.


 


But, I am a fan of Rivers and I enjoy watching him sometimes, because I think he really tries. But he basically sucks.


 


Edited this post to add -> I have been watching AFC West since forever, and Rivers is a choker.  Tarkenton and Kelly both made it to the Big Game more than once (and Rivers hasn't even been close to making to the SB), no doubt it takes more than a QB to actually win a SB.  But making it means something, it means you know how to win.  In my opinion.  Plus, Tarkenton and Kelly "changed the game" to a degree.  Rivers has just been a decent passing QB in a pass happy league and usually shitty division (except for very recent seasons).


 


But the way I see things, I don't give a flying puck for a stat or "metric" if you can't win or are a choker when it counts.  So, I won't sit here and really argue about formulas and stats and random number bullshit.  I see the game and talk about winners and losers and chokers.


 


Then again, using my logic, would Eli Manning deserve to be in the HoF over Rivers?  Maybe, probably.  And I admit it does sound weird in these "fantasy" stat-worshiping times we live in.


Edited by buck

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I'm saying, give Rivers a SB win

 

That certainly would help.

 

Rivers came up in the same draft class with Big Ben and Eli.  Part of their individual chances to make the HOF will depend specifically on how they stack up vs each other.

You could argue that the Super Bowl wins by Eli and Ben are part of them being in a superior organization compared to San Diego.  

Right now it doesn't seem like Rivers has performed that much better than Eli or Ben that raises his profile as much as 2 Super Bowl rings. I'm not sure Rivers being the superior quarterback for the last 1.5 years vaults him ahead.

 

I'm not sure any of these QBs make the HOF for sure without at least 3 more years of high level play.

In terms of getting into the hall I'd currently rate them

 

Roethlisberger

Rivers

E. Manning

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Rivers is not HoF caliber. Are we seriously discussing this? Has he ever even been the best QB in his division? Draft class? Nope.


 


Being above average throughout your career won't get you in. If we apply this Phillip Rivers' discussion logic, Phil Simms was a first ballot no brainer.


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