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Most Talented Team

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Not necessarily the best team, but most talented. I know that the best team can be predicated on the placement of players (top vs. bottom) and obviously the playbook. I think Brad may have said something that the Bears may be the most alented team, where stats and abilities are concerned, player for player.


 


So I would like to know most talented 1-12, why, and if the most talented isn't the best what keeps them from being among the best or rated higher.


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Live games I always played Chi vs SF. Most other guys were happy to play with SF, I loved playing the more "hardnosed" Bears (My cowboys were too terrible to compete, mainly on defense, which for them would be 'efense).


 


I think playbook is important too, having those crossing routes/slants especially to the TEs where the defenders have a hard time "latching" on to the receiver immediately.


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Although I am a 49'ers fan and they have the most "Stars" on one team. (Montana, Rice, Craig, Lott, Carter) I think collectively the Washington team has the best overall talent. The only thing that hinders them is their horrible play book. Give them San Francisco, Indianapolis, or Cleveland's playbook and they would be hard to stop. Their defense is tough, and versatile, with 5 viable options to use on defense (Manley, Mann, Marshall, Walton, Green). That is if we are talking about the original Tecmo Bowl and not the Japanese version.

In the Japanese version Montana, Rice, Taylor, Craig, Jones, Carter, Haley, and Lott are too much for all the other teams. It's not even close. The Japanese version is based on the 1989 season which the 49'ers dominated.

I have another ROM hack of the original Tecmo Bowl for The 1989 season to go along with my 1984 ROM Hack, that I am working on. I should be done in a couple of weeks and will post it in the downloads section along with my 1984 ROM hack. In this version, I will replace Indianapolis with Buffalo, Miami with Houston (Oilers), Cleveland with LA NFC (Rams), Seattle with Kansas City, LA AFC (Raiders) with Pittsburgh, Dallas with Philadelphia, Chicago with Cleveland. There will be some playbook changes and those horrible reverses will go bye-bye, and some other changes that hopefully people will like.

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Yes!  Great thread right here!  The Bears IMO have the most talented team from top to bottom.  One draw back is that some of their most talented guys are not in the most beneficial positions though, when compared to other teams.  Chicago also has a somewhat conservative passing playbook that hampers them a bit as well.

 

Bears defense has more elite defenders than the Giants.  Singletary, McMichael, and Duerson are all in that elite realm.  Giants only have LT and Banks, but the edge goes to the Giants studs being book-end defenders, and able to avoid runs plays better, and work pass coverage schemes better as opposed to the Bears 2 guys up front being in the middle of the field.

 

Walter Payton.  One of the best weapons in the game for keeping a defense honest.  Nuff said!

 

Dennis Gentry.  Kick return champion of the universe.  Ive had this guys take 2 to the house in 1 game!  I had this fool once take 5 to the house over a 5 game stretch and rock a couple more into field goal range.  He's on a level all his own, even though he shares the same attributes as McNeil, but theres one glaring difference.  Gentry has 1 elite blocker in Hilgenburg blowing holes open for his kick returns, and another in Covert who is also way above the average blocker's hitting power.  That makes him double dangerous, and those guys also popcorn defenders for Payton....meaning 2 less defenders that can make a cheap diving tackle.  

 

Kevin Butler...strongest leg in Tecmo Bowl.  Doesn't sound like a lot, but when you consider that with our rules and only using LB to try and block field goal attempts, any time Chicago gets inside the 45, its good for at least 3 points...that's huge.  Obviously LT will block those kicks, but Butler can still attempt kicks vs the Giants from 10 yards out and have a shot.  Only a couple others could even try. 

 

Butler's top range for the line of scrimmage is the 46.  The worst in Tecmo is 37 yards out.  That's basically 1 less first down for 3 points.

 

Talent laden defense.  Key game changing offensive player.  Elite squad in 2 of the 3 special teams categories.  They are fat cats.   

With all that said, I still rate the Giants and 49ers higher than them.        

 

Edited by Tecmo-Mad-Brad

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Although I am a 49'ers fan and they have the most "Stars" on one team. (Montana, Rice, Craig, Lott, Carter) I think collectively the Washington team has the best overall talent. The only thing that hinders them is their horrible play book. Give them San Francisco, Indianapolis, or Cleveland's playbook and they would be hard to stop. Their defense is tough, and versatile, with 5 viable options to use on defense (Manley, Mann, Marshall, Walton, Green). That is if we are talking about the original Tecmo Bowl and not the Japanese version.

 

Ah the Skins defense...great mention.  2 elites in Manley and Marshall.  Mann is really good too, and really only 1 of 2 worthwhile bottom DE players in the game, so i think that makes Mann a little more valuable.  Green and Wilburn have really good speed ratings, but get the short end of the stick with accel and initial.  Very viable options, but not elite DB's IMO.  Overall really great group of players from FIVE different key spots.  Honestly, Washington can definitely "show" more legit looks than any other team out there.

 

I gotta say, on my site I have Chicago's defense ranked 1 spot ahead of Washington  but it could really go either way.  I rocked 6 straight shut outs with the Redskins defense once.  They can F'n kill people.  

 

Offensively Washington is very damn mediocre.  Russ Grimm has some hitting power, and Gary Clark has some wheels, but nothing that will really torch you.  Timmy Smith ain't doing shit.  Darrell Green is the most un-clutch motherfucking kick returner of all time.  If he was half of what gentry was, the skins would be far more scary.   Below average kicker, and a really good punter.

 

Field position is huge in Tecmo Bowl, and I love a good punter.  Washington has that, but they don't dabble in 2 realms of excellence like Chicago with special teams.  

 

Washington with Browns playbook would basically be the Browns...slow ass Smith for slow ass Mack....defenses calling a lot of pass.  Chicago with the Brown's playbook would be unstoppable.  defenses scared of Payton torching them.  Washington with the colts playbook would be pretty good...but again defenses could hammer on pass calls.  The Bears with the Colts playbook would be unstoppable.  In those scenario's Payton is the key.  Now with San Fran's playbook.....it allows for Payton to do less, so that evens things out, BUT you can't overlook Gentry torching kick off units.

 

Payton and Gentry are quite the duo. 

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In the Japanese version Montana, Rice, Taylor, Craig, Jones, Carter, Haley, and Lott are too much for all the other teams. It's not even close. The Japanese version is based on the 1989 season which the 49'ers dominated.

 

The Japan 49ers are unfair.  They are stupid good.  I think their bottom DB is pretty good as well, and bottom DE Pierce Holt is pretty decent as well.  He must have good initial or accel.  If the Japan Vikings didn't have the bogus playbook they would be ranked 3rd!  Seriously!  As is, we rank em like 6th in Japan Tecmo.  That defense of theirs is lethal...however its missing a presence up front on the bottom side.  

 

It like taking their USA defense with Doleman and Browner, then adding Frank Minnifield to the bottom DB spot, and then adding Fredd Young  to the top MLB position.  Its like they have 4 elite defenders out there.

 

When Japan SF's offense and their defense face off...its the fastest bout in Tecmo Bowl.    

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side-step with me real quick -> I swear had the "Dickerson" cart when I was a kid (part of what made me a fan of him!)  


But, why is this being referred to as the "Japan" cart?  


Am I crazy and making shit up or how in the heck did I get a "Japanese" NES game in Tulsa, Oklahoma?  


Now, I was able to procure a nice "mirror" Swatch watch in Tulsa back in the day, but a Japanese NES game!?


Edited by buck

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side-step with me real quick -> I swear had the "dickerson" cart when I was a kid.  why is this being referred to as the "Japan" cart?  Am I crazy and making shit up or how in the heck did I get a "Japanese NES Cart" in Tulsa, Oklahoma?

 

Dickerson was included in the 1st USA release in 89.  When he got all cunty and didn't want his likeness on the game they re-released it with Bentley.

 

The japan version we speak of was only released in Japan for the Famicom, had Albert Bentley, and was in the goofy little black cartridge.  Same game and all, but had roster changes and such to coincide with the latest season.  A few of the teams were drastically better/worse.

Edited by Tecmo-Mad-Brad

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ok, thanks.  I've been confused.  so there were 3 versions -  2x USA and 1x Japan?


 


why so much talk of the Japan version?  can it be played on a North American NES?


Edited by buck

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One more nugget to throw out there since it hasn't been discussed yet.  QBs.  We've really learned how to lock down Miami.  Its still a bit of chore to beat them, but we take away the shotgun play, and MAKE Marino throw into tight windows a lot of the game.  Miami's pass 1 ans Pass 2 are really bad pass plays when defended correctly, but Dan has the lazer to gun up against Singletary, Carter, Young, Mecklenberg, etc, and beat all those teams IF he plays perfect or perhaps tosses only 1 pick.


 


Put a marginal or mediocre guys like Kosar in that situation or Williams, and Miami would fall off a cliff in our rankings.  Put Payton on the Dolphins, and that would force us to go away from a lot of those shot gun calls and roll with a lot of run calls and pass 1......and that would open up the ever dangerous Pass 3 for Miami making them the Miami of old, which was really good on offense. 


 


I like to look at how the defense would have to change their game-plans for when you plugged a certain player into some other playbook, and not always how well the Skins would do with a better playbook as I illustrated above.  Joe Morris on the Dolphins would not a make a difference one bit.  Dickerson sure would.  


 


I also feel that Payton with the Redskins or Vikings playbook would have a decent impact as well.  Surely good for an extra yard or 2 per carry with the occasional big cut-back Juke.  Give the Skins the Bears semi-lack luster playbook and they would operate it less efficiently with Smith running instead of Payton.


Edited by Tecmo-Mad-Brad

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ok, thanks.  I've been confused.  so there were 3 versions -  2x USA and 1x Japan?

 

why so much talk of the Japan version?  can it be played on a North American NES?

 

Yes,  3 versions. I got a famicom to usa adapter(which is sorta like a game genie in shape) that I plug the famicom cart into and then slide it into the deck of my NES.  

Edited by Tecmo-Mad-Brad

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Interesting replies. Now I agree with TheFes that my beloved 49ers have the most "stars" or "elite" players but is that enough to overcome the short comings they have at other positions (Mike Wilson for eg.) and playbook (only one run play).


 


Brad I like your explanation regarding the Bears. You have them as the most "talented" team top to bottom, but rate them as the 3rd best team, but you explain why. I completely slept on the Skins D. TheFes75 makes an interesting point that they have more options of players to control on D (Mann, Manly, Green, Marshall) how much of a factor is seeing that Brad only finds 2 elite defenders on the Giants (LT and Banks)?


 


Also another interesting fact that Brad mentioned was Miami with a lesser QB would be terrible, but Payton could make an average team elite. So when discussing tecmo where "talent" can 1 or 2 great players elevate a team's overall talent level above a team with 4-5 good/very good players? Just something I've always considered as there is no playbook editing or moving players around. So skill can be integral here.... I think.


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Yes!  Great thread right here!  The Bears IMO have the most talented team from top to bottom.  One draw back is that some of their most talented guys are not in the most beneficial positions though, when compared to other teams.  Chicago also has a somewhat conservative passing playbook that hampers them a bit as well.

 

Bears defense has more elite defenders than the Giants.  Singletary, McMichael, and Duerson are all in that elite realm.  Giants only have LT and Banks, but the edge goes to the Giants studs being book-end defenders, and able to avoid runs plays better, and work pass coverage schemes better as opposed to the Bears 2 guys up front being in the middle of the field.

 

Walter Payton.  One of the best weapons in the game for keeping a defense honest.  Nuff said!

 

Dennis Gentry.  Kick return champion of the universe.  Ive had this guys take 2 to the house in 1 game!  I had this fool once take 5 to the house over a 5 game stretch and rock a couple more into field goal range.  He's on a level all his own, even though he shares the same attributes as McNeil, but theres one glaring difference.  Gentry has 1 elite blocker in Hilgenburg blowing holes open for his kick returns, and another in Covert who is also way above the average blocker's hitting power.  That makes him double dangerous, and those guys also popcorn defenders for Payton....meaning 2 less defenders that can make a cheap diving tackle.  

 

Kevin Butler...strongest leg in Tecmo Bowl.  Doesn't sound like a lot, but when you consider that with our rules and only using LB to try and block field goal attempts, any time Chicago gets inside the 45, its good for at least 3 points...that's huge.  Obviously LT will block those kicks, but Butler can still attempt kicks vs the Giants from 10 yards out and have a shot.  Only a couple others could even try. 

 

Butler's top range for the line of scrimmage is the 46.  The worst in Tecmo is 37 yards out.  That's basically 1 less first down for 3 points.

 

Talent laden defense.  Key game changing offensive player.  Elite squad in 2 of the 3 special teams categories.  They are fat cats.            

 

 

As great as Gentry is.........Gerald "ICE CUBE" McNeal is right up there with him.

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TECMOBOWL 1 for the Wii has the 89' rosters instead of the original 88'.  You get the 89' rookies like Sammie Smith and Bobby Humphrey.........Herschel Walkers' on the Vikings, Neal Andersons' on the Bears, & O.J. Andersons' on the Giants.  Herschel leaving Dallas makes the Cowboys the ABSOLUTE worst team in Tecmobowl history...Darryl 'Moose' Johnston is their primary back, and he doesn't cut it.   


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Great topic.  I've always thought Chicago is far and away the most talented team.  Everywhere you look there's a superstar!  Payton, Singletary, Duerson, Mongo, Gentry, Butler, all superstar calibre players and they have a nice collection of decent role guys.  Chicago's playbook and 4-3 defense formation are the only weakness they have.


 


NYG, SF and WSH all have a good case to be #2. Probably depends on how much you value the "talent" of LT.   Just by sheer numbers NYG have 4 super stars (LT, Banks, Bavaro, Landetta) SF has 4 (Montana, Rice, Lott, Carter) and WSH only has 2 (Mann, Manley).  WSH's has a really nice collection of solid role players (Clark, Sanders, Green, Wilburn, Marshall) that put them above other more superstar ladden teams, such as:


 


LA.  Bo, Allen, Brown, Long, Christenson. So much talent they literally don't know what to do with it.  They are getting overlooked a little in the discussion here. Maybe they should be in the top 4.


 


CLE or DEN would have to be next. Elway, Mecklenburg, Jones is a great foundation to build a franchise around and CLE has McNeil, Dixon, Minnifield.  CLE has more other decent players than Denver does but Denver has a more talented RB so that's probably a push. Take your pick.


 


That leaves MIN, IND, SEA, MIA and DAL. DAL is clealrly last, and MIN is probably the most talented of the bunch considering their defenders and receivers.  Between IND, SEA and MIA I'd probably give IND the edge just based on how great Dickerson is.  MIA has Marino and 2 good receivers and a couple of decent defenders that's probably enough to out talent SEA's Fredd Young and not much else.


 


1. CHI, 2. NYG, 3. SF, 4. WSH, 5. LA, 6. CLE, 7. DEN, 8. MIN, 9. IND, 10. MIA, 11. SEA, 12. DAL


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So when discussing tecmo where "talent" can 1 or 2 great players elevate a team's overall talent level above a team with 4-5 good/very good players? Just something I've always considered as there is no playbook editing or moving players around. So skill can be integral here.... I think.

 

 

 Indeed.  The Skins are really suited to defend and execute against any playbook or personnel, BUT for my money just give me the Giants LT and Banks, and I'll make do. 

Edited by Tecmo-Mad-Brad

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As great as Gentry is.........Gerald "ICE CUBE" McNeal is right up there with him.

 

They are mirror images of each other on paper, but this is where your lack of 2 player experience comes into play.  A human opponent can run that kicker into gaps the computer won't thus defusing the kick return threat somewhat.  That's where the Bears 2 popcorning blockers come in and play a vital role.  They present more obstacles for the kicker to have to run around when facing Gentry than with McNeil.  McNeil gets his share of TDs, but Gentry goes into beast mode and dominate far more furiously over a short span.

 

 

TECMOBOWL 1 for the Wii has the 89' rosters instead of the original 88'.   Herschel leaving Dallas makes the Cowboys the ABSOLUTE worst team in Tecmobowl history...Darryl 'Moose' Johnston is their primary back, and he doesn't cut it.   

 

"Doesn't cut it" is an understatement.  Hes the equivalent of a rusty butter knife.   I think you're pretty spot on with Dallas, but I think the Redskins are a smidge worse than Dallas overall in the japan version against the field (really splitting hairs though).  Oddly enough in that match-up they seem to always beat Dallas though.  They have a big match-up advantage H2H vs Dallas with Charles Mann.  His good hitting power, and with how slow Johnston gets moving, Mann has chucked his blocker and makes quick tackles before Johnston can do anything.  You rarely need to call run with the Redskins defense in that match-up.  Easy to for the skins to defend.  Dallas does have one of the elite kick returners in Japan Tecmo and one of the few guys to ever run back 2 kick return TDs in a game.  So they do have the scare factor in tight games.     

Edited by Tecmo-Mad-Brad

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LA.  Bo, Allen, Brown, Long, Christenson. So much talent they literally don't know what to do with it.  They are getting overlooked a little in the discussion here. Maybe they should be in the top 4.

 

The jacked up playbook really made me overlook these guys offensively.

 

1. CHI, 2. NYG, 3. SF, 4. WSH, 5. LA, 6. CLE, 7. DEN, 8. MIN, 9. IND, 10. MIA, 11. SEA, 12. DAL

 

Can't say I disagree much with that list.  CLE certainly trumps DEN in the special teams area, so that would make it an easier decision for me over the long haul.  CLE is a step up in all 3 ST categories.  Bernie is also top of the 2nd tier QBs.  He's at a decided separation point, but he's not a mile behind Elway when you get into Krieg or White territory.  Dorsett is near the bottom of 9 speed RBs.  he's not a mile ahead of Mack, but sometimes it sure seems like it though.

 

Denver feels like a step up from Minnesota....certainly on offense by a wide margin.  Defense is slightly in favor of MIN.   But then things get jarbled for me.  I'd  be tempted to have Indy edge out Minnesota by a hair.  RB vs WR debate, I'm going with Dickerson over Carter by a lot.  Carter's impact as a KR is often negligible. Colts are step down with Bickett and Robinson, as is Minnesota's punter/kicker.  Min has 1 dominant blocker for Carter, and Indy has 2 for Bentley who honestly springs a decent amount of big KRs for a slow no-name guy.  He never scores, but I see Bentley get a decent amount of between the 40's type returns.         

 

And if Indy trumps Minnesota they start to look decent match-up with Denver.  Elway vs Dickerson.  Great kicking game vs horrendous.  All of sudden Colts defense starts to match-up with what Denver has.

 

I got no qual with MIA, SEA, DAL.  Miami has Marino and Roby..the corner stones, along with a decent guy in Offerdahl.  Seattle really only has Fredd as an elite and horrible kicking game, but Krieg, Warner, and Largent make a formidible mediocre trio.  Dallas only has Herschel.

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I would love to see how an original Tecmo Bowl draft would pan out with 12 of us drafting by position groups and also drafting playbooks, and see what kind of teams everyone could assemble.


 


I think it would be interesting, but Tecmo has so many moving parts that it might end up with a lot of disjointed teams as the rosters offensively might not fit the players well.   The 1st pick seems dicey as you would have to sit through 22 picks in a snake draft to get back to you, but there are 3 franchise RBs, 3 franchise QBs, a couple elite playbooks, 10 franchise type defenders.  Lots of wealth to go around I guess, so maybe its not so bad. 


 


some odds and ends.....


The 3-4 D-lines would have to draft the 3-4 LBs


Tim Brown is one of the few WRs who doubles as a KR.   


The Raiders playbook only has 1 WR, meaning its kind of handcuffed with Tim Brown as well.


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Bo Knows got me thinking about the silver and black. Everyone sucks off Bo, and Brad has mentioned time and time again he's not a fan of their playbook, But in terms of sheer "talent" where would they be. They have the best backfield with Bo & Allen. Tim Brown and Todd Christensen are good receivers don't know their ratings off hand (I'm a TSB guy). But how good was Howie Long in Tecmo?


 


Don't recall much about the D though. Brad as far as the draft maybe you can do what we did in the TSB thread. The best 5 (or even 10) at each position based on skill/ratings/effectiveness etc. We started with the skilled offensive positions (QB, RB, WR, TE). The special teams (K, P, KR/PR). And then onto defense and playbooks. Maybe this helps rating the teams with the most sheer talent/ability.


 


So far it seems the Bears are #1, and SF, NYG, WSH are battling out for 2-4. So who is the least talented? We have one vote for Dallas at #12.


Edited by thalivest

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