28-Man Vegas Tourney Ideas Thread

[kingsoby1]

I thought about this with the cats from Madison over the past two get togethers:

- 28 players, each person picks 1 team. Draft order determined by skill level

- Full fantasy draft in advance of tourney (tandems TBD, or maybe player by player?)

- Fantasy rosters uploaded to a TSB cartridge

- 28 identical cartridges made

Then we get together in Vegas and play through an entire regular season schedule and playoffs in two days. This will require:

- Up front down payment for all tourney expenses (TVs, consoles, cartridges, cartridge uploading, shipping charges for equipment to Vegas, any down payment required for tourney hosting, as well as prize money -- no refunds)

- You buy your own airfare and hotel (of course you can split with people, probably cheapest to get a suite a block off the strip)

- I dont know if we would need 14 or 28 stations up and running. I would actually suggest 14 due to cost of materials. However we could buy 28 custom cartridges just for keepsake purposes.

> This would take about 16 hours to play through with 14 stations, plus everyone gets a break after each game. 2x 8 hr days + lunch break time

Some thoughts:

- Does anyone have the contact info/ pricing of the guy that uploads roms to carts?

- Do we run in season mode and auto-skip to the relevant week? I assume it is impossible to record stats from a preseason match

- That in mind, I think some prizes for certain milestones would be cool:

> highest pts on O

> lowest pts on D

> most yards

> division winner

> 1st through 4th place

I really think there are easily 28 guys out there that would love to do this. I counted 14-20 last night off the top of my head.

- How much are people willing to pay? I can see around $100-$200 being realistic. I haven't estimated material cost yet. Let's say:

> $200 buy in

> $200-$400 plane ticket

> $100 or less hotel for 3 nights if you split/ find a good deal

> Total of $500-700. Not bad at all for an awesome weekend vacation + the most ridiculous tecmo event in the universe

[TecmoTurd]

[gripsmoke]

Yes.

[Knobbe]

Not to be a smartass here because I believe a Las Vegas Tournament has merit, but you just invented the HSTL

[estang74]

I'm down, I live 7 hours from vegas and a couple of cats who I played tecmo with in college live in Vegas and would be down. Let me know what I can do to help make this a reality.

[sonofpatbeach]

I like the idea, and of course would love to participate. But speaking as someone who's organized his fair share of Tecmo events, I sincerely doubt you'll find 28 people willing to actually do this. That's the problem we've always had with organizing the Ryder Cups -- there's never a shortage of guys who say they'd do it. Usually it's more of: Sure I'd do it (assuming it's free, at a location of my choice, on a weekend of my choice, I don't have to help plan it, and I can complain as much as I like about the format/rules).

Maybe I'm just bitter

[kingsoby1]

lets run an inventory and see if it's feasible in that case. i'm not heart set on doing this, just figured it would be pretty effing sweet to get 28 of the best players to get together in las vegas for a tecmo marathon.

who do you think would attend from your guys crew?

[bruddog]

If it's in Vegas or somewhere close to the west coast I'm most likely in.

I'm not exactly sold on an hstl style draft but that wouldn't exclude me from playing. I'd be more down for a style of draft where each player is assigned a dollar/point amount and you aren't allowed to go over a certain threshold. Or even an auction style would be viable if he have a ton of time/site to do it.

Or just make it like the Madison style but have the pool play contain more games and the actual tournament/playoffs less games

Regarding the custom carts:

[bgboud2]

I could run the NTL bidding system for it.

Maybe your buy-in is based on your total team salary.

[kingsoby1]

now you're talking.

i totally dig an auction draft if someone wants to set up the site and generate the rom.

we have more than a year to get this moving, so i would say we have a surplus of time to get participants paid up and a huge auction draft going. I would say we should tentatively plan for either April '12 or Sept '12. summertime is too hot in vegas.

[bgboud2]

Already have a site I use for NTL that I could copy. What would need to be decided:

-What the minimum bids should be or just make it a free for and let the market set the price

-Time for a bid to expire...I've been using 30 hour

-Salary cap correlated to min and max buy-in. Maybe no cap at all and you buy-in for as much as you want.

[leavemealone]

Count me as 1 of the 28 if this happens. 100%!

[sonofpatbeach]

From the Madison crew, I'd be interested, but Chet would probably be a harder sell. Can't speak for garbagetsbplayer, but CoD and Neenah boys would almost certainly be out. Don't know about Bailey; I think living in the Tecmo wasteland for so long has started to affect his motor skills and decision-making abilities. It may be an inoperable case of Tecmo cancer.

[holzy11]

Sobhi-

Let me make certain I understand. We have 28 players, each of whom controls a different team. Here are my questions/comments:

(1) Are the games played in preseason mode? I'm not sure there's any way to do a regular season mode on 14 different cartridges;

(2) Does everyone just play everyone else once? If so, that would be 27 games for each participant, but all games could be played at the same time with 14 stations. 27 games is, on the high end, approximately 13.5 hours, so two days would conceivably work. 14 stations will require use of large bar for two days;

(3) How is the winner determined? Won-loss record? Point-differential? Bruddog, any ideas?

(4) Not to rain on anyone's Vegas parade, but I think Madison (or Minneapolis given that Sobhi, Ed, and Sconnie reside there and major airport presence) would be a better venue for a couple reasons. First, I would go to Vegas, but some of the other stronger players around here probably would not (James, Rickster, Peter, Kevin Miller, Jimmy . If it was here, you'd probably get at least 6-9 guys between Madison and Milwaukee that would do it. Second, we'd also probably better be able to secure a venue here (or in Minneapolis). Getting a venue in Vegas will probably require not only a reconnaissance mission, but possibly a monetary down payment. Another problem is NES equipment and TV's. How are we going to get 14 TV's in Vegas (i.e. TV's without huge lag)? Some flat screens have minimal lag (like at Logan's on Sat), but others are absolutely awful;

(5) How are the 28 players determined and who makes that determination? Are we talking cream of the crop only here?

(6) Is your woman really going to let you participate in a 2-day Tecmo event?

(7) Last I heard, Leon was charging $25 per cartridge (which would be $350 plus postage).

[Knobbe]

I'm not exactly sold on an hstl style draft but that wouldn't exclude me from playing. I'd be more down for a style of draft where each player is assigned a dollar/point amount and you aren't allowed to go over a certain threshold. Or even an auction style would be viable if he have a ton of time/site to do it.

If you're going to do a redraft tournament, some sort of auction/money is the best way to do so.

Considering that HSTL has come across the gripe that a powerful player shouldn't get some of the first few picks, I would think the same argument might apply here.

One thought on the cartridges: While it would be cool to have a custom cart why not make this an all emulator tournament. That way you could put the money towards a nes controller which would be a bit cheaper yet also pretty cool. You also eliminate a bad cartridge write, NES resets, and having to find 14 TVs.

Auction Ideas:

Traditional fantasy baseball auction: Almost impossible to do in any short amount of time. Realistically, you could only do this if you were going to meet up at the event, pick teams, and then play via emulator.
Any player with a salary cap: You can build your own team from any players...you can build your own team and if 26 people want QB Eagles this is allowable.
Any player: Your entry fee is based on talent of your team. If you want to have a probowl of players, you're going to pay a lot more than an average team.

[bgboud2]

The NTL way could be finished online within a week. If you make the outbidding time shorter then it's a couple of days.

[kingsoby1]

(1) Are the games played in preseason mode? I'm not sure there's any way to do a regular season mode on 14 different cartridges;

Preseason Mode. Round robin would be nice, but may take too long. I envision a regular season with 1990 divisions and schedule. Maybe we could eliminate 4 games from the schedule (all #2 divisional games) to make it shorter, I dont know. This way, we would only need 7 cartridges.

(2) Does everyone just play everyone else once? If so, that would be 27 games for each participant, but all games could be played at the same time with 14 stations. 27 games is, on the high end, approximately 13.5 hours, so two days would conceivably work. 14 stations will require use of large bar for two days;

see above. I think we could run in a conference room at a cheap hotel with 7 stations. i will call the desert rose to check. that place was ridiculously cheap and solid quality. also, only 1-2 blocks from the strip near MGM grand

(3) How is the winner determined? Won-loss record? Point-differential? Bruddog, any ideas?

see first post. I think we would have a normal playoff with division winners, wildcard, etc. we can also have a regular season pts differential winner to keep things interesting. i am open to suggestions here of course, but playoffs would be great.

(4) Not to rain on anyone's Vegas parade, but I think Madison (or Minneapolis given that Sobhi, Ed, and Sconnie reside there and major airport presence) would be a better venue for a couple reasons. First, I would go to Vegas, but some of the other stronger players around here probably would not (James, Rickster, Peter, Kevin Miller, Jimmy . If it was here, you'd probably get at least 6-9 guys between Madison and Milwaukee that would do it. Second, we'd also probably better be able to secure a venue here (or in Minneapolis). Getting a venue in Vegas will probably require not only a reconnaissance mission, but possibly a monetary down payment. Another problem is NES equipment and TV's. How are we going to get 14 TV's in Vegas (i.e. TV's without huge lag)? Some flat screens have minimal lag (like at Logan's on Sat), but others are absolutely awful;

the logistics are a minimal issue i think. 7 tvs may not be terribly ridiculous as 14. regarding attendance, rick, james, and peter were gung ho about it, but it may be the hoss sauce talking. I think we are all mostly at the point where we can afford a vegas trip if planned far enough in advance. again, we need to get a estimated attendance count before pursuing this too much. there will be a $150 buy-in at least i think, all required pre-draft.

(5) How are the 28 players determined and who makes that determination? Are we talking cream of the crop only here?

I think for a special tourney like this, we should go invite only, otherwise it wouldn't be nearly as fun. gripsmoke brought up the idea of going only 1 day for the custom draft tournament and then day 2 will be an open invite original rom thing. not a bad idea, but that opens up a lot of logistics issues (ie getting a bar)

(6) Is your woman really going to let you participate in a 2-day Tecmo event?

oh ye of little faith

(7) Last I heard, Leon was charging $25 per cartridge (which would be $350 plus postage).

i emailed him. he said 20$ including shipping for high quantity, but with 7, it may be 25 again. that would be $175 plus my shipping to Leon (let's say it's 25$ for an even $200)

[kingsoby1]

The NTL way could be finished online within a week. If you make the outbidding time shorter then it's a couple of days.

I would have no idea on the auction system. That would have to be determined by someone else, but i would be more than willing to test it. i think we should set a cutoff for pass control at 69, bring all 69pc guys to 63, and bring qb eagles MS down to 44. with those changes, i think any player being fair game would be just fine, granted you pay for it.

[bruddog]

Rod we are in agreement on the auction styles. I think the traditional HSTL draft is a bad idea for the reasons you stated. If its really 28 of the best guys no one wants to play against someone with a QB eagles team.

1. The traditional fantasy baseball auction is great in that if you absolutely want a player you can pay for him. The drawback is people that don't have experience with an auction style could completely screw up their team by not budgeting properly. BG how hard would it be to change the bidding system to a traditional auction style.

Example: Player A puts out QB eagles for bid at X$. Then everyone has a chance to bid on that player until a final price is reached.

Player B gets to put up a player for bid...etc.

2. I really like the build your own team under a salary cap idea as long as the values are set CLOSE to correct. Anyone can build any team they want. We could even rename the players after the fact to make each team more unique. I think not being able to spend more keeps it more fun and fair. The downside is everyone builds very similar teams.

3. Another option would be to try and assemble 28 average teams from the original rom and then have a draft for those teams.

If you're going to do a redraft tournament, some sort of auction/money is the best way to do so. Considering that HSTL has come across the gripe that a powerful player shouldn't get some of the first few picks, I would think the same argument might apply here.

One thought on the cartridges: While it would be cool to have a custom cart why not make this an all emulator tournament. That way you could put the money towards a nes controller which would be a bit cheaper yet also pretty cool. You also eliminate a bad cartridge write, NES resets, and having to find 14 TVs.

Auction Ideas:

• Traditional fantasy baseball auction: Almost impossible to do in any short amount of time. Realistically, you could only do this if you were going to meet up at the event, pick teams, and then play via emulator.
  Any player with a salary cap: You can build your own team from any players...you can build your own team and if 26 people want QB Eagles this is allowable.
  Any player: Your entry fee is based on talent of your team. If you want to have a probowl of players, you're going to pay a lot more than an average team.

[edisaurusrex]

First off with a 200 buy-in, Sconnie and I are in whether it's in Vegas, MN or WI, although Vegas would be a hell of a lot more exciting (especially in the downtime). Finding the TVs would definitely be a problem though. Getting 28 players to pay the 200 buy-in alone might be a problem as well, $100 might be just as good.

Second I think it's a good idea to get this thing nailed down to the tiniest detail before it starts so plan out the date with enough time to get it right the first time. The auction idea scares me for the reason Bruddog mentioned, some people might not have a good idea on what they will be able to afford off the bat, but maybe we can do a dry run so people know what to expect. I think doing the auction while at the venue would be the best idea, and I think we should/need to come up with some custom auction selection tool just for this which I would be happy to provide services for / help out with.

Some other ideas ...

It would be cool to "sync" up the cartridges on the fly, so we could dump the ram for conditions/stats into the database after a game and reload the cartridges before the next game is played so everything is updated (conditions, schedule, team control, playbook selection, roster order), make it play like a real season mode even smarter.

I don't think it's a good idea to use the original schedule (conference teams playing twice and you could play too many strong/weak players), we should be able to determine how many weeks we want to play and schedule based on ranking?

Custom team names with graphics? Tony could help with that maybe ... I'm not even sure I'm up for this, but just throwing it out there.

I think we should keep the rom strictly original for attributes and should try to draft every player from the pool to keep the original feel (which means 28 total players).

We should record every game (something I think each tournament should do) maybe provide audio as well.

[kingsoby1]

whatever happens, it will have to entail using every single player from the original. i dont think half the people will show up if it was modified in any way, with the exception of the changes i recommended for qb eagles, qb bills, montana, moon, marino, krieg.

i think with all of the notes in mind above from multiple people, maybe it would be a good idea to keep everything on an emulator with nes usb controllers. this way, we can easily source 7 computers/ lcd monitors and have stats uploaded from every game to a database like tecmophile, with injuries and conditions.

[bgboud2]

1. The traditional fantasy baseball auction is great in that if you absolutely want a player you can pay for him. The drawback is people that don't have experience with an auction style could completely screw up their team by not budgeting properly. BG how hard would it be to change the bidding system to a traditional auction style.

Example: Player A puts out QB eagles for bid at X$. Then everyone has a chance to bid on that player until a final price is reached.

Player B gets to put up a player for bid...etc.

What determines the final bid? Everyone getting a chance to bid once? If you get outbid you do not get another chance?

[edisaurusrex]

We don't need existing auction tools or existing sites that are connected to databases. I have rewritten existing code in .NET that I've tested thoroughly that just needs a UI on top of it, that does condition/stat extraction into a database and that rewrites this data to the rom. I just need to find out a few things to rig it so each rom can be automatically setup for playbooks, the right matchup selected in the schedule and the right teams set to man.

I don't think you should change any of the attributes either to keep it real, and I know some of the purists out there won't like playing on an emulator, but it can definitely save money not buying catridges.

[bruddog]

Here is an attempt I made to even out all the teams. For the most part I tried to keep the biggest name pieces on their original teams.

		QB		RB		WR		OL		DL		LB		DB		TOT
ATL		$5		$20		$28		$3		$2		$15		$23		$95
BUF		$38		$33		$8		$3		$7		$2		$5		$96
CHI		$0		$33		$8		$0		$5		$12		$37		$96
CIN		$27		$26		$6		$7		$0		$2		$26		$95
CLE		$36		$7		$19		$4		$4		$11		$14		$95
DAL		$11		$26		$14		$3		$2		$14		$24		$94
DEN		$16		$33		$17		$4		$0		$13		$12		$95
DET		$17		$39		$12		$3		$3		$3		$17		$95
GB		$19		$13		$17		$3		$3		$10		$29		$95
HOU		$40		$0		$32		$6		$0		$9		$9		$96
IND		$25		$13		$13		$6		$5		$12		$17		$92
KC		$4		$23		$17		$8		$3		$23		$14		$93
MIA		$31		$20		$18		$9		$3		$2		$14		$96
MIN		$7		$13		$23		$7		$1		$13		$30		$95
NE		$24		$20		$7		$4		$4		$16		$20		$94
NO		$8		$20		$11		$7		$4		$13		$31		$93
NYG		$4		$26		$0		$7		$3		$29		$27		$95
NYJ		$19		$13		$11		$7		$5		$19		$19		$93
PHI		$58		$7		$5		$2		$6		$15		$0		$94
PHX		$8		$20		$19		$7		$4		$11		$25		$94
PIT		$8		$7		$15		$4		$3		$19		$37		$93
RAI		$2		$46		$5		$4		$7		$8		$23		$95
RAM		$8		$20		$31		$7		$4		$10		$15		$94
SD		$9		$33		$11		$3		$1		$10		$28		$96
SEA		$22		$7		$23		$7		$4		$7		$25		$95
SF		$42		$7		$35		$3		$0		$4		$6		$96
TB		$25		$20		$10		$6		$0		$0		$33		$94
WAS		$15		$13		$23		$8		$1		$8		$27		$96

[bgboud2]

We don't need existing auction tools or existing sites that are connected to databases. I have rewritten existing code in .NET that I've tested thoroughly that just needs a UI on top of it, that does condition/stat extraction into a database and that rewrites this data to the rom. I just need to find out a few things to rig it so each rom can be automatically setup for playbooks, the right matchup selected in the schedule and the right teams set to man.

I don't think you should change any of the attributes either to keep it real, and I know some of the purists out there won't like playing on an emulator, but it can definitely save money not buying catridges.

So you have an auction set up?