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jeid1

Feasibility Inquiry: Removal of jumping/diving

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For years, the tecmo community thought grappling was "hard coded" and could not be changed. This has been proven incorrect.

Which brings me to the point of this topic - what would be the feasibility of removing jumping and/or diving from NES tecmo, in general or only on the offensive side of the ball? I'm just wondering if there is a section of code known which controls this similar to grappling. I would certainly like to tinker with this in my free time, but if an offset if known and could be provided it would be a great start.

Thanks,

Jeid

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You're lucky. They just don't respond when you ask this question, I get attacked when I say the same thing. "That's part of Tecmo!! Without that you may as well go play something else!! I need my JJs!!"

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Which brings me to the point of this topic - what would be the feasibility of removing jumping and/or diving from NES tecmo, in general or only on the offensive side of the ball?

This is very untested but making the following locations xEA should get rid of jumping and diving for passes. The surrounding areas would be what you likely would want to mess with as well.

OFFENSE:

x299D7 to x299D9 ; Jumping

x29A05 to x29A07 ; Diving

DEFENSE:

x29BE5 to x29BE7 ; Jumping

x29C07 to x29C08 ; Diving

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would this stop the defensive players from diving and missing the ball carrier?

No, the players still dive to make tackles though thinking about it I would like to find the code for the CPU that tells them when to dive. If it is similar to this there likely are compare values that could possible improve their diving.

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would this stop the defensive players from diving and missing the ball carrier?

No, the players still dive to make tackles though thinking about it I would like to find the code for the CPU that tells them when to dive. If it is similar to this there likely are compare values that could possible improve their diving.

yeah, it would help immensely. the snes version, the guys don't dive like that. I always hated getting long runs because of this.

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would this stop the defensive players from diving and missing the ball carrier?

No, the players still dive to make tackles though thinking about it I would like to find the code for the CPU that tells them when to dive. If it is similar to this there likely are compare values that could possible improve their diving.

yeah, it would help immensely. the snes version, the guys don't dive like that. I always hated getting long runs because of this.

That seems like it would be a worthy hack.

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Wow... not sure how I missed this initially. Much thanks, jstout. This is very cool.

Could anyone take a few minutes and make a quick rom with this hack? I'm curious to check this out but I'm very busy with real life stuff until the weekend.

I think a rom with no jumping but diving and then another rom with no jumping/diving might be the way to go.

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I made the roms, see attached.

One has no offensive jumping but still has offensive diving... the second has both removed.

I tried changing the defensive hex values given as well but they didn't seem to work properly.

Enjoy and any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

No JJ Roms - TM Base.zip

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Bruddog, the INTs increase especially on the overthrows as instead of a JJ it goes to the DBs behind waiting on the landing point.

What was wrong with the defensive parts? I didn't have any troubles in my initial testing though something could easily be wrong.

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Thanks for the info. I think that messes up the game strategy too much.

Bruddog, the INTs increase especially on the overthrows as instead of a JJ it goes to the DBs behind waiting on the landing point.

What was wrong with the defensive parts? I didn't have any troubles in my initial testing though something could easily be wrong.

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It's really not that bad guys, especially with the new PA hack, you could easily compensate for the lack of JJs with an increase of coverage catches... you would just *gasp* have to give up your timed jj offenses.

I'd give it a shot before dismissing it entirely.

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Bruddog, the INTs increase especially on the overthrows as instead of a JJ it goes to the DBs behind waiting on the landing point.

What was wrong with the defensive parts? I didn't have any troubles in my initial testing though something could easily be wrong.

When applying the defensive parts, they still dove and jump deflected/int passes, but sometimes defensive backs would randomly stop at the 20 yard line and not cover deep routes to the endzone.

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Tecmo community, in particular Jstout, I have a quick question for you.

After doing a lot of playtesting on my 2009 rom with the no jj hack, I've realized taking jjs out entirely makes the game a little too run heavy it seems.

When playing some practice games with bruddog, I mentioned how I wish JJs could be tied to the reception of the WR or the passing stats of the QB, or even now, the playstyle of the team.

So what I'm wondering is the feasibility of this. Possible things I have though of:

  • -- If there's a way to check before every play to make sure certain statistical criteria are met.

    For example, if the QB has 69PC, JJs are on; anything lower they are off... If a player on the field has 69REC or higher, JJs are on, anything lower they are off... ideal scenario: If a QB PC and WR PA combined are greater than 120, JJs are on; anything lower they are off

    -- If we can check before every play via the sim code - If the team is a "pass heavy" offense, JJs are on; if not, they are off. Similar things could be done to check against defensive sim code values - if a defense has a sim code ranging from 0-10, JJs are on; anything higher they are off

    -- Something not quite as ideal in my opinion, but still effective, would be to create something similar to the change conditions after each play code, but with randomization and the JJ bytes. For example, even setting up some sort of 50% random number generation (range 0-1, 0=JJs on, 1=JJs off) where the JJ bytes were checked and changed after each play would draw a dramatic decrease in the number of JJs, but still include them in the game to a lesser extent.

Thoughts?

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My quick rant on game strtaegy in temco which doesn't really address your question:

1. With most offenses its pretty easy to continue to pick up first downs. Most stops are the result of fumbles or ints or a lucky series of playcalling.

2. That being said the best way to get a turnover is to make your opponent have to run as many plays as possible.

3. This means you are calling pass most of the time to prevent tons of guys being left wide open.

4. Good players on offense recognize this and will then call run more often b/c it's pretty easy to pick up first down after first down running the ball. THere are obvious exceptions but it holds true.

Now when you take away one of the main ways to move the ball passing of course its going to fuck things up.

Sucessful passing is based on

1. the defense calling run leaving to many guys open to cover.

2. Hitting wrs on quick burn routes timing routes before the defender can get in place (this is only mildly successful vs good

defenders or a good defense)

3. Having the threat of a long pass to make up for the fact that there is only one uncovered man.

4. There are a few pass patterns where if you time it exactly right the defender has slowed down and all but the slowest WR vs the fastest defender will beat him every time.

The main problem is that we are dealing with a simplistic pass game and pass defense in temco. Things like quick slants and curls don't work in tecmo. If you take away the long ball threat the short game goes to shit b/c it's pretty easy to cover most of the first 10 yards with a fast defender.

Essentially the only thing really separating a good passing team from a bad one is the ability to complete long passes more often. Passing speed helps as well.

I still say making Wr's stop their deep routes after X yards is the best bet. You can still have farily long passes if you time it just near the end of their pattern but it would eliminate the 80-100yd tds.

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I like your last idea by the way. JJ's on or off randomly.

Here are a couple other things that can be done to make JJ's LESS effective.

1. Better drone coverage on picked pass plays. A lot of the time in the defenseive code it just tells the DB to just drop back thus causing the DB to underrun or overrun the WR depending on how fast they are. This can be fixed (I think) by putting more man-to-man coverage commands in.

2. With the PC/PA hack it is possible to make most qb's in general overthrow the ball a lot more. It does SEEM to be dependant on the length of the pass. So you could make PC very low in general and qb's would still be pretty good on short passes.

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Tecmo community, in particular Jstout, I have a quick question for you.

After doing a lot of playtesting on my 2009 rom with the no jj hack, I've realized taking jjs out entirely makes the game a little too run heavy it seems.

When playing some practice games with bruddog, I mentioned how I wish JJs could be tied to the reception of the WR or the passing stats of the QB, or even now, the playstyle of the team.

So what I'm wondering is the feasibility of this. Possible things I have though of:

  • -- If there's a way to check before every play to make sure certain statistical criteria are met.

    For example, if the QB has 69PC, JJs are on; anything lower they are off... If a player on the field has 69REC or higher, JJs are on, anything lower they are off... ideal scenario: If a QB PC and WR PA combined are greater than 120, JJs are on; anything lower they are off

    -- If we can check before every play via the sim code - If the team is a "pass heavy" offense, JJs are on; if not, they are off. Similar things could be done to check against defensive sim code values - if a defense has a sim code ranging from 0-10, JJs are on; anything higher they are off

    -- Something not quite as ideal in my opinion, but still effective, would be to create something similar to the change conditions after each play code, but with randomization and the JJ bytes. For example, even setting up some sort of 50% random number generation (range 0-1, 0=JJs on, 1=JJs off) where the JJ bytes were checked and changed after each play would draw a dramatic decrease in the number of JJs, but still include them in the game to a lesser extent.

Thoughts?

Bump... does anyone have any insight in regards to this?

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